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The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

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Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#21

Post by liuliu »

garply wrote: post #10

I'm a US citizen in the SF bay area, bootstrapping a web company by myself, and I'm heading out to Beijing this summer. PG talks a lot about reaching 'ramen profitability' and there's no easier place to hit that than China. It's going to cost me about $400 a month to live (frugally), and if I needed to, I could teach English for about $60 / hr. Worst case scenario, a native English speaker could dedicate one or two d…

Other than Beijing, I am trying to get the government permission to start a start-up paradise in Qinghai, a province in the north-west of China with a very large and beautiful lake inside. Beijing's air quality is bad and the rent here is high (not comparable to bay area, but other parts of this country). As the first step, I am building a data center in Qinghai:)

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#22

Post by ajju »

thras wrote: post #19

At the risk of getting modded to oblivion again, I'll say it again: we need to change our immigration policies to encourage high-skill immigration from high-IQ countries, and discourage low-skill immigration from low-IQ countries. We don't need more yard-workers -- they don't contribute much to GDP, suck up a lot of social services (tax dollars), and even their grand-children have trouble graduating high school. Buil…

There are High-IQ countries? Must be the water!

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#23

Post by ajju »

I have now heard of 3 cases of friends who are engineers (with graduate degrees from the U.S.) working at well known US software companies, being held back in India because the US consulate is taking months to do a "background check" after they went to get their H1-B renewals, which have already been approved, stamped on the passport. This used to be an "in and out" procedure since the US government already does background checks on H-1B applicants when they apply for the first time, get their visas stamped for the first time and then apply for a renewal while still in the U.S.

At least one of these guys is considering resigning his position in the U.S. and starting something in India rather than sitting at home doing nothing.

Maybe this is just random chance. If not, kicking skilled immigrants with jobs out of the country is not a wise move.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#24

Post by abstractbill »

nickpp wrote: post #6

I left USA after being an H1B for 5 years with delay after delay in my GC application. HARD decision. Hated leaving... Went to my home country, created a software company with successful products. Now a few dozen jobs are here instead of there and some million $$$ are flowing into my country. Still, I would move to the US and open an office if I'd have a legal, fast way to get a residency there. Not likely though.

I was lucky - I got my GC after 4 years on an H1B. I still count that as 4 wasted years in a dead-end job though.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#25

Post by ajju »

smg wrote: post #2

I am working from India for the past 3 months instead of my San Francisco office. Nearly every large IT company in India offers benefits at par with Google. Yes I mean multiple food vendors. Food being served 6 times a day. The salary of an IT professional in India easily puts him among the highest wage earners in India (something similar to how Wall Street traders were a couple of years ago). Chauffeur driven cars,…

I spent 3 months setting up the India operations for the startup I used to work for in 2006. The best part of the experience - Chai (and biscuits) served at my desk.

Lunch was served too, but I prefer taking a break for lunch anyway. When you don't have to take a break for caffeine, it does wonders for your productivity.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#26

Post by ardit33 »

geebee wrote: post #13

This article is about the problems that happen when foreign nationals with engineering backgrounds no longer want to live in the US. But it could just as easily be about what happens when the US is no longer able to fill these positions from its own population. And I suspect that there is a correlation between the huge numbers of visas issued and the slow decline of interest among Americans in these fields. I know, i…

I think you are missing an important part. There is low barriers for your job to be shipped abroad.

A doctor's job is hard to ship, especially the emergency ones (you still hear about people going abroad for cosmetical work), and lawyers have barriers (you have to pass the Bar, laws changing constantly by state etc.), therefore they can command higher salaries.

But for software engineers, the barrier of job shipping is really low. My company has a team in Argentina, doing decent work. If I was twice as expensive as I was now, the company probably would have just hired all the engineering there, and maybe one or two "architect" types in the US.

Eventually american engineers with less experience would have to lower their salaries, to get into a level where the efficiencies that are gained by having somebody with the same culture/understanding on site is worth the extra cost that the average american programmer commands.

1. Remember, you are competing in a global pool of talent. Doctors/lawyers have an huge local advantage that engineers simply don't have.

2. H-1B is an recent trend (late 90s trend). I doesn't explain the lack of interest in engineering/math for american graduates. (see number 1. Even if your salary was so high to spark interest, your job it would be outsourced soon, or your company will go bust as so many did in 2001-2003).

3. In the late 90s salaries were really high. It motivated the wrong kind of people to get into school. I remember, a lot of "I am in CS for the money, not b/c the passion" types in late 90s (when I started school, and the dot com was all the rage. Within the year a lot of them were in a different major, b/c they couldn't handle it. Information technology, or business being the fallback majors of choice.

4. Even until lately, salaries for engineers have been really good. CS is one of the few majors where you can command 50-70k right after college, and where by 25 you can easily be pulling 6 figs. (I was by 25).

While I agree, that H-1B should be used to bring really skilled people in (and not used a simply a cost control school), eliminating it, is a sure path to Detroit-ing Silicon Valley.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#27

Post by nebula »

nickpp wrote: post #6

I left USA after being an H1B for 5 years with delay after delay in my GC application. HARD decision. Hated leaving... Went to my home country, created a software company with successful products. Now a few dozen jobs are here instead of there and some million $$$ are flowing into my country. Still, I would move to the US and open an office if I'd have a legal, fast way to get a residency there. Not likely though.

Are there any valid reasons as to why you would still want to move to the US?

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#28

Post by queensnake »

thras wrote: post #19

At the risk of getting modded to oblivion again, I'll say it again: we need to change our immigration policies to encourage high-skill immigration from high-IQ countries, and discourage low-skill immigration from low-IQ countries. We don't need more yard-workers -- they don't contribute much to GDP, suck up a lot of social services (tax dollars), and even their grand-children have trouble graduating high school. Buil…

But the border with Mexico is huuuge. Also, this article is about Indians & Chinese. Are they high or low IQ? My understanding of the racist consensus is that that of the Chinese is at least as high as American whites; Indians, it's more mixed or unknown. What was your angle, that the US should make it easier, /for the better educated/?

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#29

Post by Fuca »

thras wrote: post #19

At the risk of getting modded to oblivion again, I'll say it again: we need to change our immigration policies to encourage high-skill immigration from high-IQ countries, and discourage low-skill immigration from low-IQ countries. We don't need more yard-workers -- they don't contribute much to GDP, suck up a lot of social services (tax dollars), and even their grand-children have trouble graduating high school. Buil…

You dont need a fence.

The problem is not crossing, it is the hiring of illegal immigrants

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#30

Post by nebula »

garply wrote: post #10

I'm a US citizen in the SF bay area, bootstrapping a web company by myself, and I'm heading out to Beijing this summer. PG talks a lot about reaching 'ramen profitability' and there's no easier place to hit that than China. It's going to cost me about $400 a month to live (frugally), and if I needed to, I could teach English for about $60 / hr. Worst case scenario, a native English speaker could dedicate one or two d…

It might be just my personal prejudice but I'm a little scared of China; mainly because of the fact that its own citizens don't enjoy freedom of expression, God knows what might happen to a foreign national.

What's your experience? Are my fears unfounded?

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