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Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

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Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#21

Post by ExpiredLink »

davidecarrion wrote: post #2

Why do people hate on arts students? I graduated at a college with many arts students. Admittedly, a top tier college (Merton, Oxford), but they were still doing these arts degrees which people hate on so much. I got a great job after I graduated, at Google, but it's nothing compared to what many of my arts student peers did after they graduated. My roommate studied classics. HN would laugh at that - what an idiot! H…

Liberal arts graduates got something that 'STEM' graduates will be missing their whole lives: education. Education not in the sense of training in a specialized technical domain but in cultivation, in deeper understanding of their own cultural, historical, social, economical and political context. It is not surprising that the zeitgeist disregards those fields of study.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#22

Post by ollysb »

ExpiredLink wrote: post #21
davidecarrion wrote: post #2

Why do people hate on arts students? I graduated at a college with many arts students. Admittedly, a top tier college (Merton, Oxford), but they were still doing these arts degrees which people hate on so much. I got a great job after I graduated, at Google, but it's nothing compared to what many of my arts student peers did after they graduated. My roommate studied classics. HN would laugh at that - what an idiot! H…

Liberal arts graduates got something that 'STEM' graduates will be missing their whole lives: education. Education not in the sense of training in a specialized technical domain but in cultivation, in deeper understanding of their own cultural, historical, social, economical and political context. It is not surprising that the zeitgeist disregards those fields of study.

> will be missing their whole lives

it seems rather pessimistic to presume that your education is limited to the classes you chose to study at university.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#23

Post by mathgladiator »

ExpiredLink wrote: post #21
davidecarrion wrote: post #2

Why do people hate on arts students? I graduated at a college with many arts students. Admittedly, a top tier college (Merton, Oxford), but they were still doing these arts degrees which people hate on so much. I got a great job after I graduated, at Google, but it's nothing compared to what many of my arts student peers did after they graduated. My roommate studied classics. HN would laugh at that - what an idiot! H…

Liberal arts graduates got something that 'STEM' graduates will be missing their whole lives: education. Education not in the sense of training in a specialized technical domain but in cultivation, in deeper understanding of their own cultural, historical, social, economical and political context. It is not surprising that the zeitgeist disregards those fields of study.

I can turn that around.

STEM graduates got something that 'Liberal Art' graduates will be missing their whole lives: education. Education not in the sense of understand one's culture, but in the deeper sense of how to advance humanity out of the dirt and trees. It is not surprising that the zeitgeist disregards those fields of study.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#24

Post by greghinch »

gmkoliver wrote: post #17

I have a liberal arts degree, and I've been a residential carpenter for the last 13 years. I guess the money I earn puts me in the middle class. Looking back on that time it's fair to say I've left a lot of money on the table by not seeking a higher-paying job. I don't think it's arguable that a Google engineer will not make more money than a carpenter on my crew. The thing that bothers me about articles like this is…

I didn't see this as the takeaway from the article. If anything, I think his point was that you shouldn't get a liberal arts degree with no real plan and expect to find a job out of school. Certainly with additional work and effort, as I'm sure you did, you'll find a job; but just like you, it'll involve an employable skill rather than a sheet of paper that says "bachelor of arts" on it.

I think his point with tech degrees is that you can get one of those, have no real plan, and still get a job straight out of school.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#25

Post by ExpiredLink »

ollysb wrote: post #22
ExpiredLink wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal arts graduates got something that 'STEM' graduates will be missing their whole lives: education. Education not in the sense of training in a specialized technical domain but in cultivation, in deeper understanding of their own cultural, historical, social, economical and political context. It is not surprising that the zeitgeist disregards those fields of study.

> will be missing their whole lives it seems rather pessimistic to presume that your education is limited to the classes you chose to study at university.

Not limited but based on your study at university. Most people never again get the chance to learn so much from educated people. I didn't realize and appreciate that when I was a student.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#26

Post by biesnecker »

ExpiredLink wrote: post #25
ollysb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will be missing their whole lives it seems rather pessimistic to presume that your education is limited to the classes you chose to study at university.

Not limited but based on your study at university. Most people never again get the chance to learn so much from educated people. I didn't realize and appreciate that when I was a student.

> Most people never again get the chance to learn so much from educated people.

This. I didn't realize it either, and I wish I had. I have a decent number of interactions with educated, intelligent people now, but not with the sort of frequency and intensity with which I had them at university.

I don't know that I ever want to be a proper student again, but I do miss that.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#28

Post by muzz »

willholloway wrote: post #19

It is really tiring when the answer to emergent large scale economic insecurity in developed nations is "be the best" or "be in one particular field". Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer, and there is a tipping point for economic insecurity where civil unrest threatens the established order. The best and the brightest can't exist in isolation, harvesting the rewards of a larger than ever economy while the middl…

> The best and the brightest can't exist in isolation, harvesting the rewards of a larger than ever economy while the middle and lower classes slide into destitution

Exactly, they won't exist in isolation.

Articles like this may appeal us as engineers who stand to gain from automation, or those afraid of "the computer" who stand to lose from automation. But these combined do not characterize all the jobs that exist. Those that work as doctors, lawyers, etc. have no fear of "the computer" replacing their jobs. Even most blue-collar workers (construction, etc) would not need to have that fear.

Re: Jobs fight: Haves vs. the have-nots

#29

Post by muzz »

greghinch wrote: post #20

> Big companies are not going to take care of you This is the best takeaway IMHO. I think the way he characterizes liberal arts isn't quite hitting the mark, however. My experience is that there's less wrong with liberal arts schools/degrees as there is with the legions of young people who wander into university with no real plan, and expect to get a job when they graduate with and English degree (which they decided…

It's a strawman argument.

Big companies should never be viewed as "taking care" of you. Your labor is only worth what the market will bear, and thats changes for better or for worse.

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