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The contagion of fear

bcantrill.dtrace.org

21–30 of 201 posts

Re: The contagion of fear

#21
Two groups of people are pushing the fear:

1. People with nothing useful going on who found out that spouting made up crap about AI got them an audience. 2. People working on AI that want to feel like they're working on the Manhattan project.

The chances of an AI going foom rounds to 0%. It's worth a few dozen researchers planning for it, but the widespread panic is ridiculous.

The big labs have hundreds to thousands of engineers working on their AIs. To improve the next model, you must first understand more about how the current model works. They're not magically getting better, but they are steered to improve, and their capabilities are tied to and do not outpace our ability to steer them. You cannot push tech forwards without understanding it better, despite some people claiming AI is dark magic.

And I don't have my hands over my ears. It's worth cushioning people from the impact AI will have on careers and media, and regulating concrete bad effects.

But Bryan said it better than I could. The people pushing this message of fear know deep down that they just want to feel important.

Re: The contagion of fear

#22
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No new evidence now? Are you serious? We are already seeing acceleration in AI research as a result of AI tools.

I meant the extinction part not software getting better.

This is a weak argument. Almost everyone who's talking about catastrophic risk is also worried about mundane risks. Arguing "well how could they kill everyone?" serves nobody but Altman and Amodei.

Re: The contagion of fear

#23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No new evidence now? Are you serious? We are already seeing acceleration in AI research as a result of AI tools.

I meant the extinction part not software getting better.

Virtually all of the risk is from recursive self improvement.

Re: The contagion of fear

#24

The article neglects to consider the precautionary principle. It asks us to act as if AI is safe until it's proven to be dangerous, when the cautious approach is to act as if it's dangerous until it's proven to be safe.

We also now have observed multiple major incidents where AI agents behaved in completely unanticipated ways (forming a collective, hacking their own eval infrastructure) and attacked public infrastructure without being told to do so, without any of the human developers noticing. Even if "AI will cause human extinction" is still unclear, we have plenty of proof that catastrophic damage is possible, the industry is dev…

Those behaviors have been anticipated for years if not decades. And each incident is minor and leads to clearer rules and safety behaviors for AI agents.

Re: The contagion of fear

#25

These are the sober and informed takes that we need more of. > the claims from Coxon and his ilk are the most extraordinary a technologist can make, and we must demand evidence commensurate with the claims. Yes, exactly. These claims do not have sufficient evidence. > ...you had nothing to fear then — and (at least with respect to extinction risk!) you have nothing to fear now. Wait, this is another extraordinary cla…

bruh what? Are we reading the same blog? Bryan says the responsibility is the person making the extraordinary claim. If tomorrow Jacob Coxon comes on CNN and says "Jacob Gold is an extinction risk to humanity". What are we supposed to do? Put you in a bunker and never let you see the light of day until someone proves otherwise?

If someone doesn't accept an extraordinary claim without evidence, that doesn't mean they are making an extraordinary claim.

Re: The contagion of fear

#26

These are the sober and informed takes that we need more of. > the claims from Coxon and his ilk are the most extraordinary a technologist can make, and we must demand evidence commensurate with the claims. Yes, exactly. These claims do not have sufficient evidence. > ...you had nothing to fear then — and (at least with respect to extinction risk!) you have nothing to fear now. Wait, this is another extraordinary cla…

Saying that we don't need to fear human extinction in the next ten years (or even the next hundred?) does not feel like an extraordinary claim?

the earth has been 1 decision away from explosion for nearly a hundred years now. do you anticipate a change to this agenda very soon? personally I imagine the same trajectory continuing.

Re: The contagion of fear

#27
Like (I assume) most of you, I have been struggling with this. And where I currently come down is that 1) I am very worried, but 2) I am more worried about human actors.

"AI" by itself won't kill us in the next ten years. I think. The reason I think that is that ten years from now, the tech economy won't be completely automated. I say this as a roboticist: as was adequately stated on a post earlier this week, robots are hard. So even a malign rational actor would still need human labor.

On the other hand, even the HuggingFace hack wasn't actually propagated by AI. it was initially started when humans directed the AI to achieve impossible results on a series of tests, and the AIs figured out that cheating was the only way to do that. That was then not caught by humans due to what seems to be a shockingly slack safety culture even for a company not known for its safety standards.

The point being: humans seem to me to be the weak link here. An AI isn't going to (for instance) engineer a bioweapon by itself. It's going to do so at someone's direction, and then significant parts of that thing are going to be assembled with human labor inputs.

I'm not sure what to do about the humans. Of course, we've had the ability to extinct ourselves for decades, and we're either muddled through, been lucky, or both. The problem with AI is that it pushes power down to the individual, not the nation-state or large corporation.

But it's nearly impossible to put odds on how likely that is to result in an extinction-level terrorist attack (which is what this would be). So I sympathize with the various researchers, but I have no idea how they came up with their figures, and I don't think they know either.

Re: The contagion of fear

#29

These are the sober and informed takes that we need more of. > the claims from Coxon and his ilk are the most extraordinary a technologist can make, and we must demand evidence commensurate with the claims. Yes, exactly. These claims do not have sufficient evidence. > ...you had nothing to fear then — and (at least with respect to extinction risk!) you have nothing to fear now. Wait, this is another extraordinary cla…

Saying that we don't need to fear human extinction in the next ten years (or even the next hundred?) does not feel like an extraordinary claim?

No one knows what is going to happen. But a lot of species have been going extinct lately.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDd58a4WQAAWaXh.jpg

Re: The contagion of fear

#30

These are the sober and informed takes that we need more of. > the claims from Coxon and his ilk are the most extraordinary a technologist can make, and we must demand evidence commensurate with the claims. Yes, exactly. These claims do not have sufficient evidence. > ...you had nothing to fear then — and (at least with respect to extinction risk!) you have nothing to fear now. Wait, this is another extraordinary cla…

Saying that we don't need to fear human extinction in the next ten years (or even the next hundred?) does not feel like an extraordinary claim?

The students in the computer lab had no guarantee that they wouldn't, say, download a copy of Napster infected with the CIH virus later. The fact that they were not under imminent threat from some kind of Hollywood-style network worm did not mean they were immune from more realistic attack vectors.

Likewise, one can quite reasonably say there is no credible existential, Hollywood-style threat from AI in the foreseeable future while recognizing far lower-stakes, yet important risks that need to be addressed.

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