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Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

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Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#21

Post by croes »

tmtvl wrote: post #10
delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

Interestingly you're looking at the wrong column: emissions per million USD GDP have gone from 467 metric tons to 206 metric tons. That's an improvement of about 56%. It'd be great if the politicians here in the EU could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to try and match that.

Does this number include the outsourcing of production to Asia and to ship the products to the US?

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#22

Post by HWR_14 »

delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

Isn't this best explained by inflation. It seems like this implies that inflation adjusted GDP/energy remained pretty constant

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#23

Post by bluGill »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #6
delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

And probably both of these can be explained largely by the fact that most of the energy intensive production happens now in Asia.

They used and installed a fair amount of renewable energy since then. Plus, the similar efficiency gains in the EU and the article have also happened in the US. While there hasn't been government encouragement directly, there have been a lot of things that cause it to happen anyway.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#24

Post by bluGill »

jdlshore wrote: post #2

I think this is AI. It’s not as bad as some, but it’s got that breathless enthusiasm and drones on and on without ever quite getting to its point.

AI is fine in itself. The only question are the numbers correct. I'm not sure how to validate them. The facts count the most important. The second is the article readable without being too wordy or any other such problems.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#25

Post by usefulcat »

HWR_14 wrote: post #22
delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

Isn't this best explained by inflation. It seems like this implies that inflation adjusted GDP/energy remained pretty constant

Those numbers are in units of "Consumption per Real Dollar of GDP", which is defined as follows: "Calculated as energy consumption divided by U.S. gross domestic product in chained (2017) dollars".

I don't know exactly what it meant by "chained", although from the context it does sound as though it might mean something like "inflation adjusted".

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#26

Post by dismalaf »

usefulcat wrote: post #25
HWR_14 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this best explained by inflation. It seems like this implies that inflation adjusted GDP/energy remained pretty constant

Those numbers are in units of "Consumption per Real Dollar of GDP", which is defined as follows: "Calculated as energy consumption divided by U.S. gross domestic product in chained (2017) dollars". I don't know exactly what it meant by "chained", although from the context it does sound as though it might mean something like "inflation adjusted".

> I don't know exactly what it meant by "chained"

It does mean they tried to eliminate inflation as a factor. In my experience though the basket of goods used for inflation calculations do a poor job representing the majority of consumers' and businesses' costs.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#27

Post by izacus »

tmtvl wrote: post #10
delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

Interestingly you're looking at the wrong column: emissions per million USD GDP have gone from 467 metric tons to 206 metric tons. That's an improvement of about 56%. It'd be great if the politicians here in the EU could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to try and match that.

EU is already 40% better than US, so why exactly are you implying it's worse?

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#29

Post by philipallstar »

izacus wrote: post #27
tmtvl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly you're looking at the wrong column: emissions per million USD GDP have gone from 467 metric tons to 206 metric tons. That's an improvement of about 56%. It'd be great if the politicians here in the EU could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to try and match that.

EU is already 40% better than US, so why exactly are you implying it's worse?

> why exactly

Hyacinth Bucket has entered the chat.

Re: Europe's "Less" Is Doing More Than Anyone Gives It Credit For

#30

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #6
delichon wrote: post #4

> Every euro of EU output now takes 44% less energy than it did in 1995, and more than a third of that improvement has landed since 2019. This is positioned as the key fact of the whole argument, presented first and repeated. But they do not attempt an equivalent US figure. So here's mine. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf 1K BTU Consumption per $ of GDP 1995: 7.77 2025: 4.04 4.04 / 7.77 ≈…

And probably both of these can be explained largely by the fact that most of the energy intensive production happens now in Asia.

everyone switched from manufacturing to service jobs
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