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The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

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Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#21

Post by reeredfdfdf »

I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU.

Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield against united Europe, but if small Eastern European countries are left without support, then Russia has much better odds against them.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#22

Post by NikolaNovak »

martin_bech wrote: post #17
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) Many of their senior leaders are Nazis. The head of the party in the state of Thuringia used to write pro-Hitler articles under a pseudonym. > ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely The AfD doesn't address their problems either. It tells them that all of their problems are because of foreigners and imm…

Whats your solution to the immigration problem in Germany?

That's a trick question though, and it cunningly pre-supposes / takes-for-granted there IS an "immigration problem", and implicitly that "the immigration problem is the root cause of other problems" (as opposed to, "there are real problems, and some people would like you to think they're because of immigration").

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#23

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

martin_bech wrote: post #17
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) Many of their senior leaders are Nazis. The head of the party in the state of Thuringia used to write pro-Hitler articles under a pseudonym. > ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely The AfD doesn't address their problems either. It tells them that all of their problems are because of foreigners and imm…

Whats your solution to the immigration problem in Germany?

What immigration problem? Immigrants are wonderful. Things have only improved in Germany with immigration. It is wrong and unethical to keep immigrants out of your country, you have no right to do so.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#24

Post by martin_bech »

LarryDarrell wrote: post #7

When economic reforms are off the table, and austerity has run out of things to be austere about... yeah, anti-immigrant political parties are going to feast. Here in the US, there's a dumber revival of the Red Scare. The scare mongering isn't as effective this go round because there's no existing abundance for the people. All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare th…

Its kind of the same as Maga, in the way that the people, and the politicians want very different things.. the people want a stop to crazy levels of immigration, and a stop to the EU deciding how they live their lives, and the politicians wants immigration, censorship and the EU to decide everything.. people voting Afd is primarily anti immigration and anti establishment.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#25

Post by RIMR »

cyberpunk wrote: post #15
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a foreigner who's rooting for the fascists, you're an idiot. They want to deport you.

? What did I say that gave that opinion? Of course I'm not rooting for the fascists...

Elsewhere in this thread, you talk about how it's unfair that the far-right gets compared to Nazis, but here you call them fascists.

What a weird position to be in, where you acknowledge the fascism but think Nazi comparisons go too far...

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#26

Post by misguidedrightf »

redeeman wrote: post #2

"far right" (gets 44% of votes.. lets not talk about that)

*44% of a Saxony-Anhalt state election. Let me know when the heart of Berlin gets anything near that.

Also, the Free State of Anhalt was the first Weimar state to elect a local parliament with a Nazi leader. History sure does rhyme.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#27

Post by r_lee »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #9
cyberpunk wrote: post #3

When no political party is willing to address the immigration issue that clearly is forefront on the minds of such AFD voters, what did you expect them to do? Vote CDU? Do we all think that another 8, 10 years of being "firewalled" out of national poltitics and being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) is going to make them less or more extreme? It's hard work making a society tha…

> being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) Many of their senior leaders are Nazis. The head of the party in the state of Thuringia used to write pro-Hitler articles under a pseudonym. > ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely The AfD doesn't address their problems either. It tells them that all of their problems are because of foreigners and imm…

there's clearly been a problem with migrants, why did no party address these issues?

if you could make them powerless by just addressing the issue, why have no parties done that? why hand power to the AfD?

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#28

Post by Daishiman »

ksec wrote: post #12
redeeman wrote: post #2

"far right" (gets 44% of votes.. lets not talk about that)

This isn't really news. Media has been calling anyone which does not align with their views as far right for more than a decade.

Is the AfD a party in favor of liberal democracy? Enlighten us about where you'd palce their ideas in the political spectrum.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#29

Post by r_lee »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #23
martin_bech wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats your solution to the immigration problem in Germany?

What immigration problem? Immigrants are wonderful. Things have only improved in Germany with immigration. It is wrong and unethical to keep immigrants out of your country, you have no right to do so.

what?

why can't I then migrate to the US or whatever country I wanna go to?

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#30

Post by balarjin »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #4
redeeman wrote: post #2

"far right" (gets 44% of votes.. lets not talk about that)

The Nazi party got 37% of votes nationwide (not just in one state). Getting a lot of votes does not mean a party is not far-right. Germans of all people know that.

What is the "far-right" far from?

In normal English, it would be from the average (median) voter. A party is "far-right" (or "far-left") if it is substantially to the right (left) of the average voter.

Assume that people vote for the person/party closest to their own view on an issue. 44% of voters choose the far-right candidate, meaning 44% of voters are closer to the far-right candidate than any other option.

How can this happen? Several ways, but only one is realistic: the other candidates are even farther away (to the left or right) from the position of the median voter. 40%+ of voters are themselves "far-right".

> The Nazi party got 37% of votes nationwide (not just in one state).

The Nazi party was not that far to the right of the median German voter at the time.

The far-left is using scary words ("Nazi", "Far-right", etc.) to tar a group they dislike (see what I did there?) They are counting on the fact that most voters can be influenced by group-think and name-calling. They are probably correct. But this is Hacker News, and the people here ought to be smart enough to see this for the stupid political smear that it obviously is. If you don't like a party, make the case that their policy is wrong. If vague analogy to the Nazis is the best argument you have, then you have no argument at all.

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