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'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

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Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#21

Post by lordgilman »

kerhackernews wrote: post #2

Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.

I suspect the authors of this paper would like to hear out your evidence for increasing energy prices https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.19777

In the United States at least there's been plenty of polling on why people oppose data centers. Consistently, it's water usage and water contamination fears, which is exactly what you see most often in social media and discussed online. I think a lot of high-minded rationalizations are just trying to dodge the embarrassing fact that people simply think data centers are draining municipal and natural water sources.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#23

Post by postalrat »

triceratops wrote: post #16
nxm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That includes nuclear power, correct?

Can they build it safely as fast as the data center it's meant to power? Full steam ahead then.

It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#24

Post by lisp2240 »

kerhackernews wrote: post #2

Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.

Even worse some data centers have been caught running on diesel generators even in places where that is illegal. People are sick of tech companies bribing their way out of any accountability.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#25

Post by iamnothere »

kerhackernews wrote: post #2

Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.

It won’t necessarily impact local energy prices significantly. Some facilities build gas turbine generators, but these cause the noise that neighbors complain about. Gas isn’t as bad about pollution (except CO2) but you don’t want to live next door to a plant either.

Also, adding a few data centers to a large grid shouldn’t bump up the energy prices, it’s only when you add many across the area. This is difficult to pin down because if one side of a region builds many data centers without their own power generation, the whole region could see eventual price increases. Fortunately most (all?) states regulate utility price increases, but still you don’t want to max out the price bump year after year.

It’s hard to discuss because different facilities have different configurations, and the local impact depends on that plus local characteristics.

Given the externalities of large facilities like this, impacted neighbors should definitely get a vote. Maybe we need a standard to define the impact radius based on the facility characteristics. This would add transparency and make it easier for people to decide without FUD and distortion. Unfortunately I don’t have much confidence in anyone coming up with such a standard without altering it to benefit their side, now that it’s become a political football.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#26

Post by AndrewDucker »

postalrat wrote: post #23
triceratops wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they build it safely as fast as the data center it's meant to power? Full steam ahead then.

It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

People do not believe big companies when they say "I'll deal with the externalities a little later."

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#27

Post by triceratops »

postalrat wrote: post #23
triceratops wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they build it safely as fast as the data center it's meant to power? Full steam ahead then.

It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

So then does the data center compensate local residents for their higher power bills today? Until the new capacity comes online?

> Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

No it's like demanding your new neighbors aren't forced to lend you money for your purchase - which is entirely reasonable. If you need money, get it from the bank.

The top-level comment explains it already:

"When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution."

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#28

Post by MatekCopatek »

lordgilman wrote: post #21
kerhackernews wrote: post #2

Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.

I suspect the authors of this paper would like to hear out your evidence for increasing energy prices https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.19777 In the United States at least there's been plenty of polling on why people oppose data centers. Consistently, it's water usage and water contamination fears, which is exactly what you see most often in social media and discussed online. I think a lot of high-minded rationalizations ar…

What exactly are you getting at? Datacenters do use potable water from municipal sources for evaporative cooling. Are you claiming that's not true?

Here's a recent source: https://pacinst.org/publication/how-much-water-do-data-cente...

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#29

Post by wood_spirit »

redwood wrote: post #13
kerhackernews wrote: post #2

Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.

No a big part is that the buildings are ugly and transform the character of a place that folks grew up in. Maybe focus should be put on beautifying these buildings in some way

Even if invisible they would not be a popular neighbour because they are a very overt reminder to the poor people around them how uneven the wealth and political power distribution is between them and the tech exec owners?

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#30

Post by forshaper »

mikestew wrote: post #20
jrflo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do, indirectly. The local government gets property taxes from these data centers. But maybe it would be more real for people if you just wrote them a check I guess.

The local government gets property taxes from these data centers. Not if they get a sweetheart tax deal. Why do you think folks are so pissy? It’s like a sports stadium next to your house in that the principals get tax breaks, eminent domain, and other considerations, but it makes noise every day(not just weekends) and you don’t get to go to the game.

Even with a state sweetheart tax deal, the most populated county in my state gets half of its property tax income from a datacenter. Projection for one in my county looks like it would hit 70%.

tbh I'm more worried about the resource curse from the sudden change in budget

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