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Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

nature.com

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Re: Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

#21

Post by hobofan »

aldanor wrote: post #19

And how can we tell for sure if it's good or bad? Does killing these birds and mammals help maintain the ecosystem balance (due to these birds and mammals not killing billions other animals down the food chain, or not spreading infections and viruses), or the other way around?

A prerequisite for there to even be a chance of cats being involved in ecosystem balance would be for the cats to exist purely as part of the ecosystem, as in being exposed to negative feedback effects to it (e.g. starvation due to overhunting). As it stands, they are being fed by humans and mostly exist outside the ecosystem, and every kill by them only drains resources from the ecosystem.

Re: Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

#22

Post by stnikolauswagne »

HelloUsername wrote: post #20
stnikolauswagne wrote: post #9

As a cat lover this only strengthens my opinion that they should stay inside the house, humans cause enough damage to the ecosystem without needlessly unleashing pretty efficient predators for no gain.

> Cats should stay inside they house Isn't putting them on a leash, or having them wear a bell around their neck outside, enough for all parties?

Mhh, intriguing.

I would also say they would at least need to be neutered in that case so they dont reproduce with the feral population, but from a predatory perspective that would probably be fine then.

I would still not let our cats go out, my wife is pregnant so toxoplasmosis is very scary and bell or not we would be terrified of them getting lost or getting run over by a car or worse.

Re: Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

#23

Post by stnikolauswagne »

platesmead wrote: post #18
stnikolauswagne wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder also whether there's something about towns/cities that makes birds flourish, compared to other wild animals. I would assume it has got do with the reason pigeons are sometimes called "flying rats", i.e. they can subsist on human trash, can survive in the environment and are not seen as negatively as rats and thus have less pest-control efforts pointed at them.

If cats are killing wild animals that happen to flourish in human environments, is that such a loss to biodiversity? (Genuine Q. I don't know anything about what biodiversity folk look for.)

An extreme example would be Maos Great Leap Forward, where there was a human-led drive to exterminate sparrows as part of pest control, which in turn led to famines because sparrows also served as pest control for insects.

Humans are very good at introducing invasive species (domestic cat, kudzu) and pretty bad at forseeing the impact they have

Re: Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

#24

Post by [deleted] »

HelloUsername wrote: post #20
stnikolauswagne wrote: post #9

As a cat lover this only strengthens my opinion that they should stay inside the house, humans cause enough damage to the ecosystem without needlessly unleashing pretty efficient predators for no gain.

> Cats should stay inside they house Isn't putting them on a leash, or having them wear a bell around their neck outside, enough for all parties?

[deleted]

Re: Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

#25

Post by amanaplanacanal »

hobofan wrote: post #21
aldanor wrote: post #19

And how can we tell for sure if it's good or bad? Does killing these birds and mammals help maintain the ecosystem balance (due to these birds and mammals not killing billions other animals down the food chain, or not spreading infections and viruses), or the other way around?

A prerequisite for there to even be a chance of cats being involved in ecosystem balance would be for the cats to exist purely as part of the ecosystem, as in being exposed to negative feedback effects to it (e.g. starvation due to overhunting). As it stands, they are being fed by humans and mostly exist outside the ecosystem, and every kill by them only drains resources from the ecosystem.

On the other hand, humans have done a pretty good job of removing most of the other predators in the environment. Domestic cats must be replacing some of the natural predation that is no longer occurring.

Re: Domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0B birds and 6.3–22.3B mammals annually

#30

Post by boesboes »

hobofan wrote: post #21
aldanor wrote: post #19

And how can we tell for sure if it's good or bad? Does killing these birds and mammals help maintain the ecosystem balance (due to these birds and mammals not killing billions other animals down the food chain, or not spreading infections and viruses), or the other way around?

A prerequisite for there to even be a chance of cats being involved in ecosystem balance would be for the cats to exist purely as part of the ecosystem, as in being exposed to negative feedback effects to it (e.g. starvation due to overhunting). As it stands, they are being fed by humans and mostly exist outside the ecosystem, and every kill by them only drains resources from the ecosystem.

Not saying you are wrong, but we also feed birds and rodents, intentionally and by the by products of our society existing.
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