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Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

smithsonianmag.com

21–30 of 195 posts

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#21

lets splice in a gene fix for cephalopod senescence and get the invasion over with

I have this headcanon that an ancient ape civilization was at war with cephalopods and they created a weapon of mass destruction that artificially gimped octopus lifespans :'(

There is only one species of octopus that lives socially (LPSO are rare and incredibly intelligent but their lifespans are like 3 years)

Maybe your headcannon should be that apes did a "tower of babel" type thing to make all the octopus individualistic and unable to organize into a civilization

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#22
post #6

I would imagine their intelligence is directly proportional to the so many degrees of freedom the arms have for grasping, but don't ask which one came first, chicken or egg?

the history of how people have conceived of causality between human intelligence and human hands (and in which direction dependency may lie) is quite interesting. "It is by having hands that man is the most intelligent of animals." —Anaxagoras, circa 450 BCE.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#23

I found the article very interesting. Not click bait at all. I didn't realize that an octopuses brain was spread out all over its body.

You might find the recent Theories of Everything podcast interview [0] with Peter Godfrey-Smith interesting. Godfrey-Smith is the author of "Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness," which is a great read to delve further.

Two other interesting aspects of cephalopods:

  * Make many more changes to RNA than other invertebrates [2]
  * Have only one type of light sensing cell in eyes, so may detect color by chromatic aberration
0. https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/p/peter-godfrey-smith-thi...

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Minds:_The_Octopus,_the_...

2. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/octopus-squid-rna-editin...

3. https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/07/05/weird-pupils-let-octopu...

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this headcanon that an ancient ape civilization was at war with cephalopods and they created a weapon of mass destruction that artificially gimped octopus lifespans :'(

mutations that occur after reproduction are never weeded out since the genes are passed on already, so natural selection on its own can result in this, just like cancer or lower safeguards against cancer such as short telomeres in humans

This isn’t quite true, is it? A mutation that killed 5 years after childbirth would result in higher mortality rates for the child.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this headcanon that an ancient ape civilization was at war with cephalopods and they created a weapon of mass destruction that artificially gimped octopus lifespans :'(

There is only one species of octopus that lives socially (LPSO are rare and incredibly intelligent but their lifespans are like 3 years) Maybe your headcannon should be that apes did a "tower of babel" type thing to make all the octopus individualistic and unable to organize into a civilization

It's more complex than that. The famed octopus city[1] was populated by the gloomy octopus, a species which prior to the discover was believed to have been exclusively solitary.

[1] - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/octopus-city-obser...

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#26
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, they have the highest ratio of brain-to-body-mass of any invertebrate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

My wife stopped eating octopus after seeing the giant Pacific octopus in the Monterey aquarium. The way it stares at you hints at a real intelligence. Maybe the smaller species aren't that smart, but why take the chance?

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#27
>If we “use nature as a guide to understand how that happens naturally,” she says, “then we can probably find ways to put it into human cells.”

Oh boy! Please hurry up with this. I want brains in all my appendages so I can adapt in real time to all the environmental conditions that I am encountering moment to moment.

Test it first though, maybe on a rat or a planarian. Your choice.

EDIT: I know this is great research. Understanding how evolution has allowed other species to adapt to their environments and overcome conditions that would be dangerous helps us assemble the pieces of the puzzle of the origin of life. I just don't think that the first thing we should be considering when we find something that makes an organism unique is the question of how we can insert genetic change into the human genome. If humans had ever needed it the mutation would already be present through natural selection.

If the end game is always to modify the human genome then there is no reason to do the research on other organisms.

Set up the conditions with humans and run a few generations through. The ones who make it likely have some genetic difference that predisposes them to winning that part of life. No need to rush things. Do it once, do it right.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mutations that occur after reproduction are never weeded out since the genes are passed on already, so natural selection on its own can result in this, just like cancer or lower safeguards against cancer such as short telomeres in humans

This isn’t quite true, is it? A mutation that killed 5 years after childbirth would result in higher mortality rates for the child.

Octopus have extremely high mortality rates and extremely large litters, so there’s that

They don’t raise their offspring

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so maybe think twice before eating one.

I find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.

First time talking to humans? We distinguish murder from killing because the latter is sometimes justified (e.g., in war or self-defense).

We justify everything we do.

Re: Octopus intelligence may be related to never-before-seen mutation

#30
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t quite true, is it? A mutation that killed 5 years after childbirth would result in higher mortality rates for the child.

Octopus have extremely high mortality rates and extremely large litters, so there’s that They don’t raise their offspring

Ah yeah, I was thinking humans
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