Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#21

Post by Topfi »

Angostura wrote: post #11
figmert wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is like that because people are hellbent on giving Apple money despite them being so user hostile.

I’ve never found them user hostile. They just sell appliances that do a thing. If you don’t want that thing don’t buy it. If you do want that thing, it dies it pretty well. I don’t have an iPad. My wife uses her, a lot.

We can discuss about iOS vs macOS, etc. and I feel that others have litigated that already, but where I see no way to view their current position anything besides user hostile is in the fact developers are forced to buy a Mac to develop for any Apple device.

Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac.

Prefer Linux, BSD or Windows? Tough noogies for you, you will have to both pay for a Mac and deal with macOS regardless of your preference.

Already developed a cross-platform app that could run on macOS and iOS via React Native, Flutter/Dart, Kotlin? Well, buy or rent a Mac to compile and in all likelihood iOS devices to boot as the simulator in Xcode has idiomatic misbehavior vs physical devices so some things work on it which don't on real iOS hardware and vice versa.

Beyond the App Store and Apple Pay being the only game in town in many jurisdictions, limitations on JIT hampering innovation and rules that are less than consistent (why is game streaming not permitted but video streaming is, why does Amazon Prime Video get an exception but Netflix and others do not, etc.), the fact that developing software for Apple devices means you have to own their hardware in ways other platforms do not require and are forced to use Xcode with its bugs and peculiarities feels very hostile. Then there is what you have to do as part of actually testing your in development app on your own hardware. Ridiculous to the n-th degree and I'd argue textbook user hostile.

Saying this as someone who daily-drives a Macbook Pro because, having tried three laptops from other vendors that are as or more expensive to the Macbook due to my preference for Fedora Silverblue over macOS, the Macbook continues to be the only one that has decent hardware. Good lord, there is a circle of hell for whomever thought that POS clicky excuse of a touchpad in the Asus ProArt P16 is serviceable in a € 299,- bargain bin special, let alone a high-end workstation. And the less said about HP and Dell in 25/26, the better...

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#22

Post by eddieroger »

Topfi wrote: post #21
Angostura wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never found them user hostile. They just sell appliances that do a thing. If you don’t want that thing don’t buy it. If you do want that thing, it dies it pretty well. I don’t have an iPad. My wife uses her, a lot.

We can discuss about iOS vs macOS, etc. and I feel that others have litigated that already, but where I see no way to view their current position anything besides user hostile is in the fact developers are forced to buy a Mac to develop for any Apple device. Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac. Prefer Linux, BSD or Windows? Tough noogies for you, you will have to both pay for a Mac and deal with macOS r…

> Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac.

Just like I can't run Android Studio on my Pixel or Samsung Tabs, but for some reason, that doesn't seem to get people hopped up. Why should I expect to run Xcode on a consumption device? And yeah, if I want to run Xcode, I need a Mac just like if I want to run Android Studio, I need a computer.

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#23

Post by aranelsurion »

t-3 wrote: post #17
amelius wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car analogy time. Users would be angry if your car could only run on Apple fuel, and drive on Apple roads, and were speed-limited based on what Apple thinks is safe. The fact that we think this is normal for phones is crazy. And the longer we wait the more Apple fuel stations and Apple roads there will be, until there is no way back.

Apple in this analogy would be a subway. It runs on Apple tracks by Apple rules. If you live in the city, doing city things, you might never need a car, and the subway meets all your needs. If you have a car, you might never need the subway and think it just sounds horrible. The subway rider doesn't need to think about driving and doesn't want to. The driver thinks having to drive is a feature, not a bug.

I think you're trying maybe a little too hard to see this from a product/horses-for-courses angle, but the subway analogy doesn't make sense. Subways have very practical and technical reasons to run on their tracks and exclusively operated by professionals. AFAIK there's no subway out there that isn't a closed ecosystem, and it's unclear if there'd be any benefit to their passengers if they weren't.

OTOH we know tablets, smartphones and cars can operate in an open manner, and their users benefit from this. Apple choosing not to make such tablets and phones is similar to cars that could operate on any road and fed any brand oil, but Apple choosing not to for their own benefit.

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#24

Post by RobotToaster »

Angostura wrote: post #11
figmert wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is like that because people are hellbent on giving Apple money despite them being so user hostile.

I’ve never found them user hostile. They just sell appliances that do a thing. If you don’t want that thing don’t buy it. If you do want that thing, it dies it pretty well. I don’t have an iPad. My wife uses her, a lot.

Here's a (probably incomplete) list of ways they are user hostile https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Apple

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#25

Post by burnerthrow008 »

Topfi wrote: post #21
Angostura wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never found them user hostile. They just sell appliances that do a thing. If you don’t want that thing don’t buy it. If you do want that thing, it dies it pretty well. I don’t have an iPad. My wife uses her, a lot.

We can discuss about iOS vs macOS, etc. and I feel that others have litigated that already, but where I see no way to view their current position anything besides user hostile is in the fact developers are forced to buy a Mac to develop for any Apple device. Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac. Prefer Linux, BSD or Windows? Tough noogies for you, you will have to both pay for a Mac and deal with macOS r…

There seems to be a lot of confusion between user hostile and developer hostile.

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#26

Post by t-3 »

aranelsurion wrote: post #23
t-3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple in this analogy would be a subway. It runs on Apple tracks by Apple rules. If you live in the city, doing city things, you might never need a car, and the subway meets all your needs. If you have a car, you might never need the subway and think it just sounds horrible. The subway rider doesn't need to think about driving and doesn't want to. The driver thinks having to drive is a feature, not a bug.

I think you're trying maybe a little too hard to see this from a product/horses-for-courses angle, but the subway analogy doesn't make sense. Subways have very practical and technical reasons to run on their tracks and exclusively operated by professionals. AFAIK there's no subway out there that isn't a closed ecosystem, and it's unclear if there'd be any benefit to their passengers if they weren't. OTOH we know tabl…

A bus works just as well and satisfies your complaints. Many people neither need nor want the full flexibility of car ownership. Many people neither need nor want full control of their computer. Apple being a locked-down walled garden is absolutely a selling point for many of their customers.

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#27

Post by burnerthrow008 »

figmert wrote: post #19
afavour wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not convinced by the analogy. Phones don't run on fuel (and you can recharge a phone with any electricity supply), iPhones will run on more or less any phone network (which is as close as I can think for the road equivalent). The speed limit analogy I can sort of see if I squint and I think highlights the reason people buy Apple: they want simplicity in their life. They don't want to monitor the speed limit f…

> Phones don't run on fuel (and you can recharge a phone with any electricity supply) That analogy would be the charging port. Until the EU forced them to use USB-C, they refused to let you use anything but their proprietary (inferior) connector.

> they refused to let you use anything but their proprietary (inferior) connector

Ah, the mask comes off!

The thing is, people who actually used lightning widely agree that it is better than USB-C. The tactile click is just miles better, to name just one example.

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#28

Post by Topfi »

eddieroger wrote: post #22
Topfi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can discuss about iOS vs macOS, etc. and I feel that others have litigated that already, but where I see no way to view their current position anything besides user hostile is in the fact developers are forced to buy a Mac to develop for any Apple device. Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac. Prefer Linux, BSD or Windows? Tough noogies for you, you will have to both pay for a Mac and deal with macOS r…

> Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac. Just like I can't run Android Studio on my Pixel or Samsung Tabs, but for some reason, that doesn't seem to get people hopped up. Why should I expect to run Xcode on a consumption device? And yeah, if I want to run Xcode, I need a Mac just like if I want to run Android Studio, I need a computer.

Sure you can, via e.g. Termux. Have done so.

Also, I don't want to run Xcode, it is arguably the worst development environment and hasn't gotten any better over the years.

I have to use Xcode regardless, if I want to develop for iOS or macOS. I don't have to use Android Studio, I got plenty of alternatives for that.

Re: Run Android ARM64 VR APKs on Apple Vision Pro

#29

Post by Topfi »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #25
Topfi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can discuss about iOS vs macOS, etc. and I feel that others have litigated that already, but where I see no way to view their current position anything besides user hostile is in the fact developers are forced to buy a Mac to develop for any Apple device. Own an iPad? Can't develop on that, pay for a Mac. Prefer Linux, BSD or Windows? Tough noogies for you, you will have to both pay for a Mac and deal with macOS r…

There seems to be a lot of confusion between user hostile and developer hostile.

Developers are just a subset of users. If Apple e.g. didn't allow third-party apps to access the camera for more granular control over photography, we wouldn't differentiate between user hostile and photographer hostile either, because photographers, like developers are just users.
Post reply on HN