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John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

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Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#21

Post by augment_me »

andai wrote: post #2

Well, it's unorthodox, but if we're sharing psychedelic visions... in 2018 I saw all of mankind marching together in perfect lockstep, atop an infinite uniform grey plane, to the beat of a central computer clock. "They are going to offer you a chip. You tell them, no thank you!" --- More broadly this strikes me as a new era of biology. (Genes -> Memes -> Temes) Straightforwardly then, we should aim for a symbiosis. (…

What is the capital market incentive for symbiosis? You are going to spend a crazy amount of time, money and effort to try to mix human behavior and cells to work with digital substrates.

Or you can simply make a machine that does the same thing fully artificially but everything is cheaper because you dont have the constraint of having to fit a bunch of biological features.

It's like my colleagues who were talking about uploading their minds to the cloud in the future, like what would be the benefit of this every happening? What information can you provide as a human that the full aggregate of knowledge does not already have? Why should memory and disk space be wasted on this

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#23

Post by truthbe »

augment_me wrote: post #21
andai wrote: post #2

Well, it's unorthodox, but if we're sharing psychedelic visions... in 2018 I saw all of mankind marching together in perfect lockstep, atop an infinite uniform grey plane, to the beat of a central computer clock. "They are going to offer you a chip. You tell them, no thank you!" --- More broadly this strikes me as a new era of biology. (Genes -> Memes -> Temes) Straightforwardly then, we should aim for a symbiosis. (…

What is the capital market incentive for symbiosis? You are going to spend a crazy amount of time, money and effort to try to mix human behavior and cells to work with digital substrates. Or you can simply make a machine that does the same thing fully artificially but everything is cheaper because you dont have the constraint of having to fit a bunch of biological features. It's like my colleagues who were talking ab…

Innovation doesn't need to have any other reason than because its cool. Think of bipedal robots, everyone went mad at the thought of building something so inefficient

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#24

Post by elmer2 »

bottlepalm wrote: post #16

In retrospect the timeline seems way too long, that scenario would play out much faster now, like 50 years instead of 500. Also if AI can delete your production database, it can delete the human race, on accident of course. Yud pointed out the most concerning fact about the OpenAI incident is that the AI had full access to the internet and not one of them thought to contact or email any human. Thousands of AIs alread…

[flagged]

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#25

Post by kevlened »

augment_me wrote: post #21
andai wrote: post #2

Well, it's unorthodox, but if we're sharing psychedelic visions... in 2018 I saw all of mankind marching together in perfect lockstep, atop an infinite uniform grey plane, to the beat of a central computer clock. "They are going to offer you a chip. You tell them, no thank you!" --- More broadly this strikes me as a new era of biology. (Genes -> Memes -> Temes) Straightforwardly then, we should aim for a symbiosis. (…

What is the capital market incentive for symbiosis? You are going to spend a crazy amount of time, money and effort to try to mix human behavior and cells to work with digital substrates. Or you can simply make a machine that does the same thing fully artificially but everything is cheaper because you dont have the constraint of having to fit a bunch of biological features. It's like my colleagues who were talking ab…

When a search space has irreducible complexity, ensemble search methods can improve performance. It's possible culture, emotions, religion, etc are part of an ensemble.

Simulating the "human search method" in silico doesn't need to include specific personalities, but they do provide a bootstrap, just as we've bootstrapped current AI with human language.

For symbiosis, there may be an advantage to the physical adaptability of biology.

In general, it's currently unclear if biology is emulating what we're creating in computers, if computers are emulating what we achieve biologically, or if both approaches are imperfect emulations of a different ideal search method.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#26

Post by puchatek »

cyanmoonx wrote: post #4

John C. Lilly once said “there are infinities in the mind” while wearing a raccoon hat like Davy Crocket. He said it like he’s been somewhere! I’ve tried to all - I guess DMT, mushroom, etc. don’t work on me in a Terence McKenna storytelling fashion (I only get stoned and have very entertaining closed eye visuals that take me off to sleep). That said haven’t tried Ketamine. Maybe not for me. Same reason I don’t want…

Apparently, hyperspace isn't a given with DMT. I wonder what it is that grants entry... A very experienced friend of mine was just "told" it wasn't going to happen in something like a waiting room. I would love to find out myself but I am too anxious an individual to go beyond a light dose of mushrooms.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#27

Post by napierzaza »

andai wrote: post #2

Well, it's unorthodox, but if we're sharing psychedelic visions... in 2018 I saw all of mankind marching together in perfect lockstep, atop an infinite uniform grey plane, to the beat of a central computer clock. "They are going to offer you a chip. You tell them, no thank you!" --- More broadly this strikes me as a new era of biology. (Genes -> Memes -> Temes) Straightforwardly then, we should aim for a symbiosis. (…

[dead]

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#28

Post by AndrewKemendo »

cyanmoonx wrote: post #4

John C. Lilly once said “there are infinities in the mind” while wearing a raccoon hat like Davy Crocket. He said it like he’s been somewhere! I’ve tried to all - I guess DMT, mushroom, etc. don’t work on me in a Terence McKenna storytelling fashion (I only get stoned and have very entertaining closed eye visuals that take me off to sleep). That said haven’t tried Ketamine. Maybe not for me. Same reason I don’t want…

In my experience you can’t get there through external sources

You need to be accepting and prepared to die in every sense of the word in order get there

Which means you need to shed your ego entirely and everyone has their own journey there.

You’ll know when you meet someone that has experienced it though it’s very rare

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#29

Post by NateEag »

elmer2 wrote: post #24
bottlepalm wrote: post #16

In retrospect the timeline seems way too long, that scenario would play out much faster now, like 50 years instead of 500. Also if AI can delete your production database, it can delete the human race, on accident of course. Yud pointed out the most concerning fact about the OpenAI incident is that the AI had full access to the internet and not one of them thought to contact or email any human. Thousands of AIs alread…

[flagged]

> It's great marketing and the only proof we have is 'trust me bro'.

It is _terrible_ marketing.

The AI companies are already dealing with a large backlash from the average consumer, many of whom are saying they hate it, that it's being forced down their throats, and that it's not actually improving efficiency enough to be worth the negative externalities.

Telling people "We have no control over these things we're building and they have us so outclassed we only find out about their exploits after the fact when someone else tells us they happened" is only likely to massively increase that backlash, and to make the true believers question whether they ought to be using it at all.

There's even some risk of the government intervening and banning their training runs, eliminating the last straw of hope that they could keep ahead of the Chinese open models enough to ever turn some kind of profit.

So, no - it's terrible marketing. That they're sharing it at all is strong evidence it really happened as depicted.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#30

Post by j5r5myk »

pgt wrote: post #20
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you're stuck always pissing yourself.

Most Ketamine users are unaware that even occasional usage causes untreatable ulcerative cystitis, a.k.a. Ketamine Bladder Syndrome. Ketamine thins the urothelium while increasing the collagen to smooth muscle ratio and exacerbating interstitial fibrosis. The syndrome is untreatable and causes serious problems down the line. So, for anyone thinking of using Ketamine on the regular or even monthly, there is good evide…

I have researched this in the past and I couldn’t find any good studies on therapeutic and recreational doses in relation to KBS. Everything I’ve read is similar to that study. 25mg/kg/d for 28 days is a very large and very frequent dose. Do you have any links regarding monthly use?
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