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AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

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Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#21

Post by cucumber3732842 »

MisterTea wrote: post #3

Why aren't the data centers footing the bill? If they want to suddenly spawn GW of load out of thin air then they can pay for the needed infrastructure without pushing that burden to other customers. Power companies have demand metering which offsets the cost of ensuring there is capacity available for commercial and industrial customer loads. Something similar should be levied against large single point of use custo…

>Why aren't the data centers footing the bill?

> Something similar should be levied against large single point of use customers like this.

Already exists and has for decades.

All the "rules" (literal laws in some cases) for how the cost is borne for grid upgrade costs are a complex web.

There's half a dozen different ways you "apply" to connect a large load or generation to the grid. They all come with different rules that make or break things. And all this has multi-year timelines.

Source: Trying to get someone else to develop solar on my property

Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#22

Post by garethsprice »

Trash AI article with a useless map. It looks to be a screenshot from an interactive version in the linked Newsweek article[^1] that was mangled by the slop grinder.

The source map shows current electricity costs rather than projected ones. This makes more sense given NY just implemented a moratorium on new data centers (because who uses the Internet in New York anyway /s) but it was dark blue on there.

[1]: https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-electricity-costs-in-ever...

Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#24

Post by newsomix9xl »

During the dot com days rich tech yuppies were accused of "driving up rents".

But I'm pretty sure rich tech bros didn't bid up rents. They simply could absorb the high rents set by profiteering landlords.

The real culprit was "systematic underproduction" of housing: special interests and politicians colluding to prevent a free market in housing.

It seems the "data center" is the new tech bro being accused of "driving up prices". But what about environmentalists who gutted nuclear and coal production? What about poorly conceived solar or geothermal production. Why do we not have more competition in energy?

I'm pretty sure data centers didn't guide energy policies and if they did they'd want cheap electricity too.

The tech bro and data center bad guy are red herrings to distract from bad public policy.

Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#25

Post by jpalmer »

As someone who pays attention to Texas energy rates, I'm gonna call BS on atleast the TX portion of this as rates are at multi year lows. Here are the current rates (1 year contracts):

- Oncor (DFW) 11.6 kwh - Centerpoint (Houston) 10.8 kwh - AEP Texas Central 11.2 kwh - AEP Texas North 11.8 kwh - Texas-New Mexico Power 12.5 kwh - Lubbick Power and Light 12.5 kwh

Not sure how this aligns with new datacenter builds but you can buy power cheap currently.

Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#26

Post by Straw »

stanfordkid wrote: post #15
Straw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they? If demand for X goes up, and price goes up, the whole point of the price system is to incentivize all users of X to use less and producers of X to make more. Here's an example where the benefit is obvious: Say I set up a desalination plant for a city with water shortages. I use a lot of electricity; this drives up electricity prices. But I also sell the more scarce water, lowering the price of water.…

Yeah, the issue with your example is that it's not a desalination plant serving local customers, but rather the entire world via a network. So rural customers have to pay for negative externalities that benefit others geographically distant from them. The benefit is not purely localized. Of course data centers bring jobs etc. I don't think we should ban them... but community level politics exist for a reason -- those…

There isn't an externality here in the traditional sense. No one has a right to purchase anything at any particular price. Should people be disallowed from bidding in auctions because it increases the price of the item in question?

No, people who live in geography absolutely should not control the land surrounding them. That's effectively land hoarding, and incentivizes deeply counterproductive NIMBYism. People should primarily control the land they own.

Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#27

Post by Straw »

rybosworld wrote: post #16
Straw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they? If demand for X goes up, and price goes up, the whole point of the price system is to incentivize all users of X to use less and producers of X to make more. Here's an example where the benefit is obvious: Say I set up a desalination plant for a city with water shortages. I use a lot of electricity; this drives up electricity prices. But I also sell the more scarce water, lowering the price of water.…

> Why should they? Because utilities are regulated monopolies that exist to benefit society. The companies building data-centers are well aware that the system isn't setup to handle a customer that suddenly doubles or triples the electric demand of a whole town over night. They are taking advantage of that until someone steps in.

The data center demands are known years in advance. Its not like they magically appear out of nowhere.

Perhaps we should eliminate the utilities guaranteed monopoly then! Monopolies are usually dysfunctional.

Re: AI Data Centers Are Driving Up Power Bills – This Map Shows Where

#28

Post by Straw »

jnwatson wrote: post #18
Straw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they? If demand for X goes up, and price goes up, the whole point of the price system is to incentivize all users of X to use less and producers of X to make more. Here's an example where the benefit is obvious: Say I set up a desalination plant for a city with water shortages. I use a lot of electricity; this drives up electricity prices. But I also sell the more scarce water, lowering the price of water.…

Electricity production isn't a free market in the vast majority of municipalities. Market systems only work when demand and supply are relatively unconstrained. In this case, supply is strongly constrained.

Market systems work especially well when supply or demand are constrained- they allocate the scarce resource more effectively!
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