I see somebody discovered the concept of dialectical materialism from first principles.
Protopia
21–30 of 60 posts
Re: Protopia
#22This is much too simplistic and ignores the compounding effects of bad decisions. It’s basically an argument for the happy path where nothing goes wrong but things have been going wrong for a long time. We are facing many economic, political, cultural and environmental problems that are the direct result of a viewpoint like this, that everything will just keep getting better if we keep doing more of the same thing wi…
Every time we try to fix anything fundamental, we end up with revolutions that make everything much worse and sometimes just get stuck in their new dystopia. Meanwhile incrementalist economies+democracies are racing ahead quite well.
Re: Protopia
#23This sure suggests that we're all choosing to build this dystopia we're trending towards. I agree very much with the idea that we should be making the world better little by little, but better... better for who? Who benefits is a genuinely important question to answer. I believe "better for most", which means using our wealth to lift up many. Others believe "better for me" or "better for my tribe" or "better for my n…
> This sure suggests that we're all choosing to build this dystopia we're trending towards.
Citation needed. Humans have never been richer in medicine, tech, social mobility, pick your measurement.
Re: Protopia
#24Imagine writing several paragraphs defining “utopia” and not mentioning Thomas More.
Re: Protopia
#25At some point the problems compound faster than the "1% improvement" each year. The author deliberately doesn't wealth inequality/misaligned financial incentives driving misery at a global scale which makes it very hard to take seriously.
> At some point the problems compound faster than the "1% improvement" each year.
We've been going for literally hundreds of years or multiple thousands depending on how you count, and this isn't obvious at all.
> The author deliberately doesn't [address] wealth inequality/misaligned financial incentives driving misery at a global scale which makes it very hard to take seriously.
Wealth equality is imo a mirage. Most wealth inequality is driven by ownership of corporations. If we move that ownership to the states, and keep corporate controls intact, basically nothing happens except wealth equality goes way down. It's a mathematical magic trick that is utterly irrelevant.
Misaligned financial incentives are a different matter though, and I agree there's a lot of problems there. But "driving misery" seems hyperbolic. What is actually "driving misery" is the lack of economic development of the poorest countries.
Re: Protopia
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
> mass surveillance I hear this complaint here a lot and I guess there are more cameras, but arrests have gone down in absolute terms in the US despite growing population. > The total number of arrests in the U.S. fell sharply in 2020 during pandemic-driven shifts in public activity and enforcement—and it has changed little since then. The 2024 arrest total was 25% lower than in 2019, the year before the pandemic, an…
> > Economic decline > The middle class is shrinking, but the upper and upper-middle is growing. Growing is size maybe, but the middle and lower classes are both getting much richer.
> Growing is size maybe, but the middle and lower classes are both getting much richer.
This is an illusion caused by poor measurement. You can argue all you want about how much a pickup truck's safety/bell and whistles have improved, but from the 60s - 80s, a day laborer carpenter could purchase a new truck on a third of their salary. Now a truck that serves the same function is 1.5x their salary.
Re: Protopia
#27I like how the author defines dystopia as > reckless uprisings, a long dark age, the collapse of institutions, climate disasters, a black mirror of stunted humanity descending into chaos. rather than the much more common understanding or portrayals like 1984 or Handmaid's Tale, which in fact feature incredibly, overly -strong institutions, and a tyrannical lack of autonomy (so not a whole lot of 'reckless uprisings')…
> mass surveillance I hear this complaint here a lot and I guess there are more cameras, but arrests have gone down in absolute terms in the US despite growing population. > The total number of arrests in the U.S. fell sharply in 2020 during pandemic-driven shifts in public activity and enforcement—and it has changed little since then. The 2024 arrest total was 25% lower than in 2019, the year before the pandemic, an…
> This is a more reliable proxy than the $1b damage climate events, because the other is due to development on risky coast lines and overall increase in property values above inflation.
I don't think coastal property prices are the main concern. Most of climate change damage doesn't directly show up on a balance sheet but it's already there. Drought and storm damage are causing food shortages leading to terror and war. But the people it affects are sometimes not even part of the recorded economy.
Re: Protopia
#28Isn't this just a case of euphemism treadmill? The Culture and Star Trek are clearly utopian visions of the future and also fits this protoian definition 100%. There is no difference, except that some people think, incorrectly, that you can jump from the current society (imo a utopia itself by any time traveller from 150 years ago) to a new ideal world without passing the intermediate steps. I think of these people a…
Who in the hell would think 50x annual wage house prices is any type of utopia.
Re: Protopia
#29Unfortunately for some problems like climate change, improving 1-2% per year starting today still leads to disaster.
Re: Protopia
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> mass surveillance I hear this complaint here a lot and I guess there are more cameras, but arrests have gone down in absolute terms in the US despite growing population. > The total number of arrests in the U.S. fell sharply in 2020 during pandemic-driven shifts in public activity and enforcement—and it has changed little since then. The 2024 arrest total was 25% lower than in 2019, the year before the pandemic, an…
> This is a more reliable proxy than the $1b damage climate events, because the other is due to development on risky coast lines and overall increase in property values above inflation. I don't think coastal property prices are the main concern. Most of climate change damage doesn't directly show up on a balance sheet but it's already there. Drought and storm damage are causing food shortages leading to terror and wa…
Shouldn't deaths be up if climate damage is wrecking havock? That's my point