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Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

citizens-initiative.europa.eu

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Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#21

Post by Bender »

As far as I know the only thing that influences change is money. What methods could be implemented to take money away from governments that implement with such things? All of my ideas would be very low traction but there are clever people here on HN that I am sure could come up with a few better ideas.

One of my (probably dumb) ideas is:

- Create a legal presence in a country that does not require being dystopian, relaxed business laws, less regulation, lower taxes, move most of the corporate side of the business there. Take the tax revenue with you. It does not have to be all at once. Make the move a slow boil so they don't see it until it's too late.

Which countries, provinces, regions, states have the least regulation, least dystopian behavior and the least taxes? There has to be a incentive for business leaders and board members to move things around. Bonus if the saved money pays for a Gulfstream G650 ER or two.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#22

Post by Balooga »

cromka wrote: post #10
superxpro12 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not all parents are screaming this. Only the parents who refuse to parent their children, and conveniently scapegoat society for their parental failings

We cannot possibly expect all parents to take proper care of their kids. This has never been the case and never will. That's why we have schools and other institutions that oversee our growth within society. You could make same exact argument regarding kids health, alcohol abuse, nicotine abuse, all types of addictions, age of consent, and so on. You can't just have all the safeguards dropped because you think you're…

> We cannot possibly expect all parents to take proper care of their kids. This has never been the case and never will. That's why we have schools and other institutions that oversee our growth within society.

"It takes a village to raise a child." Except these same parents who won't take care of their kids are also the very first who go all "How dare you speak to my child like that! I'm going to have you fired!"

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#23

Post by hobom »

ndr wrote: post #14
cromka wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We cannot possibly expect all parents to take proper care of their kids. This has never been the case and never will. That's why we have schools and other institutions that oversee our growth within society. You could make same exact argument regarding kids health, alcohol abuse, nicotine abuse, all types of addictions, age of consent, and so on. You can't just have all the safeguards dropped because you think you're…

It is a parenting issue. Don't let kids have an internet-connected phone, the same way they can't have a bottle of wine. If they really need such device make sure that device is locked to a small list of app/contacts possible. There's no need to lock down the rest of the internet because the responsible person of such kid can't tolerate their complaints. It is a parenting issue.

You totally ignored the point OP was making! Even if it is a parenting issue, simply declaring that will not make parents parent better. It's the same reason why we ban children from drinking wine, because parents cannot be relied upon here.

Unless your point was that we should legally ban kids from handling phones, which I think is too extreme.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#24

Post by [deleted] »

TryingToBeNice wrote: post #2

Even for a "Citizens' Initiative", this stuff is remarkably tone-deaf. "No Digital ID" ignores the very-real need for people to prove their identity to government(-ish) entities online, and to do so in a reliable, cheap and convenient way. Sure, you do not want that ID to become mandatory for publishing or existing on the Internet in general, but that's a separate discussion: demand sufficient protection for anonymou…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#25

Post by seany »

cromka wrote: post #10
superxpro12 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not all parents are screaming this. Only the parents who refuse to parent their children, and conveniently scapegoat society for their parental failings

We cannot possibly expect all parents to take proper care of their kids. This has never been the case and never will. That's why we have schools and other institutions that oversee our growth within society. You could make same exact argument regarding kids health, alcohol abuse, nicotine abuse, all types of addictions, age of consent, and so on. You can't just have all the safeguards dropped because you think you're…

So they should be raised by the state just in case? I feel like Ive read this story somewhere...

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#27

Post by OkayPhysicist »

TryingToBeNice wrote: post #18
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also fascists screaming at the government to do other wildly illegal stuff. The lousy parents begging the government to "tread on me" would get wildly better results by spending less time trying to create an authoritarian state and more time with their kids they claim to care so much about. They're children. They have the internet access you give them . This isn't some unsolveable problem that needs governm…

[flagged]

And the solution already exists, one that doesn't empower the government to do some truly heinous shit.

Every power you grant the government is another knife they'll eventually stab you in the back with. Maybe you like your current government, but what about the next one, and the one after that?

Instead, just use the tools you already have access to. I was not opposed when California mandated that applications add parental controls, that's fine. If parents want to restrict their children's internet access, there's a continium there ranging from "prudent parenting" to "child abuse", but that can be worked out on a case-by-case basis. I am, however, rabidly against the state requiring you to dox yourself every time you log into a website, because inconceivably lazy parents can't figure out how to use the parental tools that they already have.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#28

Post by jck86 »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #5

I think it's a missed opportunity to not have called it "Stop spying on every EU citizen online". It would make for great headlines and might finally wake people up when they see that the EU has rejected a proposal called that. "Stop killing the internet" unfortunately means nothing at all to the layman, they will still be using it pretty much exactly as they were before, and governments will just claim "See, interne…

You may be overthinking this. It is privacy that means little to the regular joe. The internet they use every day and it being changed beyond recognition is much more tangible than privacy being curtailed just a little bit more.

And these authoritarian politicians will destroy the internet with these actions. Maybe they will even change society as we know it, and not for the better.

The problem is thinking such initiatives will achieve anything in a bureaucratic system devoid of honest debate and actual democracy.

These citizen's initiatives must at least be tried but simultaneously we must create a new internet forever out of politician reach.

Re: Stop Killing the Internet: No Digital ID and No Age Verification

#30

Post by ndr »

hobom wrote: post #23
ndr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a parenting issue. Don't let kids have an internet-connected phone, the same way they can't have a bottle of wine. If they really need such device make sure that device is locked to a small list of app/contacts possible. There's no need to lock down the rest of the internet because the responsible person of such kid can't tolerate their complaints. It is a parenting issue.

You totally ignored the point OP was making! Even if it is a parenting issue, simply declaring that will not make parents parent better. It's the same reason why we ban children from drinking wine, because parents cannot be relied upon here. Unless your point was that we should legally ban kids from handling phones, which I think is too extreme.

But that is my point.

Chase the responsible adult if you see a kid with an overpowered phone, much like you would if you found the same kid with a bottle of wine.

And granted, we don't have locked-enough phone in market yet, but that's a solvable problem if we were to create that market.

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