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What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

galjot.si

21–30 of 56 posts

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#21
I enjoy the fact that you were able to wedge Bukowski into this clusterfuck of technobabble , but the parallel being drawn between quality-writing and hitting buttons on the magic-elaboration-device ["ai"] is just... not there. Quality writing requires actual lived-experience, emotions, adventures, and a keen ability to grasp and clasp ends of an event-sequence like a beaded necklace or rosary; to present something cohesive and well-lived to someone who can imagine , provided ... the imagery and order-of-events are resonant.

Stylistically, I find Bukowski's "I know it / will" linebreak to be offensive to my aesthetic sensibilities as an excellent writer.

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#22

I enjoy the fact that you were able to wedge Bukowski into this clusterfuck of technobabble , but the parallel being drawn between quality-writing and hitting buttons on the magic-elaboration-device ["ai"] is just... not there. Quality writing requires actual lived-experience, emotions, adventures, and a keen ability to grasp and clasp ends of an event-sequence like a beaded necklace or rosary; to present something c…

"Wrong! The point of the story is the wife. Listen to your wife, she'll give you perspective. Meaning, you need a break. You have to take a bath or you'll get nowhere. There would be no order only chaos. Go home, Max, and you take a bath."

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#23

I enjoy the fact that you were able to wedge Bukowski into this clusterfuck of technobabble , but the parallel being drawn between quality-writing and hitting buttons on the magic-elaboration-device ["ai"] is just... not there. Quality writing requires actual lived-experience, emotions, adventures, and a keen ability to grasp and clasp ends of an event-sequence like a beaded necklace or rosary; to present something c…

Summarybot (I feel silly for replying to a *bot*), that's a really good point, and I'd argue that creative writing and software development have a lot in common, especially now that English is the #1 programming language.

Nowadays when we can build software 50x faster, there are even greater benefits from spending time to speak with our prospects/customers.

This is the "working subconsciousness" take-away from Earnest Hemingway I wrote about here: https://galjot.si/what-ai-developers-could-learn-from-ernest...

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#26
> Why aren't tech folks sipping tequilas on the beach?

Because the environment mentioned earlier in the post - Silicon Valley - has absolutely nothing to offer but value creation. The people who rise up to leadership and success in that environment aren't particularly awesome human beings. The point isn't to make it better to be a human, it's to make all of the money.

All of the discussion about open models here of late offers a backdrop for what OpenAI was supposed to be versus what it turned out to be, and that offers a pretty good demonstration of the problem. Originally OpenAI was supposed to be a public benefit corporation that offered open models with a focus on ethics and safety. Their investors could expect "only" 100x return on their buy-in.

That, of course, didn't fill up the pockets of investors in SV to their liking, so the models became closed, the focus on safety and ethics went out the window, and the company became a typical for-profit corporation. The bet is now that they can hyperscale the deployment of closed models in a way that will generate an absolutely enormous amount of revenue and pay off the training and serving costs.

Meanwhile, Chinese developers of open models are taking the role that OpenAI was supposed to fulfill, with the obvious intent of undermining OpenAI and its ilk. They'll likely succeed, at least to some extent.

AI as it is now, at least in the major US labs based in SV, is almost purely for profit. The bet is huge and there can't be room for a penny to not be earned, for that tequila on a beach. It's an all-consuming philosophy in that region. If we want to see AI in the US have a sustainable path, you'll have to toss the people from that regional echo chamber. Maybe that'll happen if the monetary losses are big enough. Maybe not.

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#27

Some of it is fun and new, I'm spending a lot of time just making stuff I wanna make. But regarding work produced for the marketplace, I think it is naive to think any productivity gains will ever produce more time on the beach for workers. The market is competitive. Some gains will be seized by capital, and others realized in the production of some combination of more stuff, cheaper stuff, or better stuff.

And yet, when I was a developer and the only way to automate things was by hand, I found that doing so could give me lots of extra free time.

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#28
post #8

All writing is difficult. The most you can hope for is a day when it goes reasonably easily. plumbers don't get plumbers block, and doctors don't get doctors block; why should writers be the only profession that gives a special name to the difficulty of working and then expects sympathy for it? —Philip Pullman

> "Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write.

> This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: Must I write? Dig into 1 yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this solemn question with a strong, simple 'I must,' then build your life in accordance with this necessity..."

--Rainer Maria Rilke

Meanwhile Rilke gives no sympathy saying don't write because it is easy, hard, or your job, write because your existence demands it.

I've found writing software for domains is agnostic; there isn't much difference between make a CRM for Real Estate or ERP for car mechanic shops. It is curious that I know one person who is as passionate about the event ticket industry as Rilke is about writing -- they would rather die than not scalp tickets.

I would have to read `Letters to a Young Poet again`. Rilke addresses the difference between being an artist (Rilke a Poet apprenticed under Rodin to learn not sculpture but guidance to live as an artist) and entering a structured profession.

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#29
post #8

All writing is difficult. The most you can hope for is a day when it goes reasonably easily. plumbers don't get plumbers block, and doctors don't get doctors block; why should writers be the only profession that gives a special name to the difficulty of working and then expects sympathy for it? —Philip Pullman

> "Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. > This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: Must I write? Dig into 1 yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this solemn question…

Beautiful.

Charles Bukowski said something similar…

> /…/ no baby, if you’re going to create you’re going to create whether you work 16 hours a day in a coal mine or you’re going to create in a small room with 3 children while you’re on welfare, you’re going to create with part of your mind and your body blown away, you’re going to create blind crippled demented, you’re going to create with a cat crawling up your back while the whole city trembles in earthquake, bombardment, flood and fire. baby, air and light and time and space have nothing to do with it and don’t create anything except maybe a longer life to find new excuses for.

Re: What AI developers could learn from Charles Bukowski?

#30
post #8

All writing is difficult. The most you can hope for is a day when it goes reasonably easily. plumbers don't get plumbers block, and doctors don't get doctors block; why should writers be the only profession that gives a special name to the difficulty of working and then expects sympathy for it? —Philip Pullman

> "Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. > This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: Must I write? Dig into 1 yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this solemn question…

I just bought "Letters to a Young Poet" for Kindle, thanks for the recommendation.
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