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The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

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Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#21

Post by miloshh »

tlb wrote: post #17
critic wrote: post #9

There's a simpler explanation than appealing to math the author admits not understanding: male attractiveness ages better. A 40 year old man can be attractive to 20 year old women, but a 40 year old woman is rarely attractive to 20 year old men. In other words, women past their prime who restrict themselves to mates their own age will may be in relatively low demand.

The opposite is true. Because women in their narrow age range of attractiveness get paired with men in a much broader age range of attractiveness, that would create a shortage of women. Say, if women 25-35 date men 30-45, there are 50% more men in that group. or combining folk wisdom and math: d(half your age + 7) / d (age) However, the fact that men propose and women decide creates an inversion. Early marriages take…

Actually, I think critic above had it right. Sure, women are considered more attractive when 20-30, and get a lot of attantion from men in that age, much more than men do at any point in their life. After women get past 30, things simply get back to "normal", but to them this seems as a shortage. In fact, single women above 30 seem to be the only group that ever refers to a "shortage of suitable males" - in my experience, younger women and men are generally surprised as to why such thing should ever exist.

Furthermore, the theory that men are trying hard to marry, and the most attractive ones "succeed" to marry at a younger age, just does not seem to be realistic, especially not in modern society. There are good reasons for men not to marry early.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#22

Post by vaksel »

critic wrote: post #9

There's a simpler explanation than appealing to math the author admits not understanding: male attractiveness ages better. A 40 year old man can be attractive to 20 year old women, but a 40 year old woman is rarely attractive to 20 year old men. In other words, women past their prime who restrict themselves to mates their own age will may be in relatively low demand.

the looks thing is so true, after 25 women lose their looks exponentially...sure there are a few "milfs" in the 40s who still look good, but these were the 10s in the 18s who had their pick of men.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#23

Post by geebee »

critic wrote: post #9

There's a simpler explanation than appealing to math the author admits not understanding: male attractiveness ages better. A 40 year old man can be attractive to 20 year old women, but a 40 year old woman is rarely attractive to 20 year old men. In other words, women past their prime who restrict themselves to mates their own age will may be in relatively low demand.

I agree. The thing to keep in mind is that this works against men as well as women, it just hits them at different points in their lives.

If women between the ages of 21 and 25 are interested in (and pursued by) men between the ages of 21 and 35+, while men between 21 and 25 are limited to women who are roughly the same age, then men will face a very difficult dating "market" in their early 20s, and women will experience a favorable one. As men and women age, the inevitable symmetry switches the situation - women between 35 and 40 are now competing for men who are pursuing women between the ages of, say, 25 and 40.

This is something to keep in mind when you hear that the dating world is unfair to women over 35. It's "unfair" to men too, just earlier in life.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#24

Post by vaksel »

I think additional part of the problem is that men are starting to realize that they really don't have anything to gain by being married. And they are so afraid of having to go through a divorce that can wipe them out, that they don't feel like trying. I mean a 50% divorce rate in this country, is pretty much a coin toss on whether or not you lose everything.

Seriously the only thing to gain by being married is saving a few bucks on taxes.

And you lose pretty much everything else. Every single married guy I know is MISERABLE. The sex pretty much stops within the first couple of years. And the woman gains mega weight, because now that they "got" you, they don't need to keep in shape. And then the whole bitchy wife comes out treating the guy as a second class citizen.

Marrying an American woman is pretty much the worst decision you can make. If you really want to get married, go find a nice European girl to marry, unlike American women, at least they know that marriage is not a one way street.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#25

Post by time_management »

vaksel wrote: post #22
critic wrote: post #9

There's a simpler explanation than appealing to math the author admits not understanding: male attractiveness ages better. A 40 year old man can be attractive to 20 year old women, but a 40 year old woman is rarely attractive to 20 year old men. In other words, women past their prime who restrict themselves to mates their own age will may be in relatively low demand.

the looks thing is so true, after 25 women lose their looks exponentially...sure there are a few "milfs" in the 40s who still look good, but these were the 10s in the 18s who had their pick of men.

Not quite, because different women look good at different ages.

Case in point: Michelle Obama looked fairly awkward as a teenager, but is beautiful in her 40s.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#26

Post by mfhughes »

time_management wrote: post #25
vaksel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the looks thing is so true, after 25 women lose their looks exponentially...sure there are a few "milfs" in the 40s who still look good, but these were the 10s in the 18s who had their pick of men.

Not quite, because different women look good at different ages. Case in point: Michelle Obama looked fairly awkward as a teenager, but is beautiful in her 40s.

I'm not even gonna go there with Cindy McCain.

Wait I think I just did.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#27

Post by time_management »

vaksel wrote: post #24

I think additional part of the problem is that men are starting to realize that they really don't have anything to gain by being married. And they are so afraid of having to go through a divorce that can wipe them out, that they don't feel like trying. I mean a 50% divorce rate in this country, is pretty much a coin toss on whether or not you lose everything. Seriously the only thing to gain by being married is savin…

And they are so afraid of having to go through a divorce that can wipe them out, that they don't feel like trying.

Yep. It's an utterly broken system where the wife can decide she's not into her husband any more and walk away with half of his shit.

Every single married guy I know is MISERABLE. The sex pretty much stops within the first couple of years. And the woman gains mega weight, because now that they "got" you, they don't need to keep in shape.

I think this is far from universal. You seem to know some really unhappy married people.

It seems like this is more often the case among less educated couples who marry too young.

Marrying an American woman is pretty much the worst decision you can make. If you really want to get married, go find a nice European girl to marry, unlike American women, at least they know that marriage is not a one way street.

Why European? My observation is that E. European, Asian, Latin American, and African women are around the same level of quality: very high, because the educated women from those areas are cultured and would be at the pinnacle of refinement by the US standard. Next is W. Europe, Canada, and the Pacific Northwest. Urban sophisticate and minority American women are probably at the same level as Pacific NW ladies: not bad, and not nearly as bad as the reputation of American women would suggest. However, the suburban-bred office cows, raised on Sex and the City and burned out on college casual sex, are at the cellulite-ridden, lumpy, bottom. They're the ones who give American women a bad name. In truth, you can find quality women anywhere, even in the US... it's just much harder in some places.

There seems to be a criticality situation regarding the number of decent women in a given nationality. What might be at root a 2% shortage (in quality American women vs. men) blows up, on account of some sort of a positive feedback loop. The advantage conferred by the shortage causes (some) women to become spoiled, which further erodes the quality of the women, leading to more shortage, and so on.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#28

Post by angstrom »

vaksel wrote: post #24

I think additional part of the problem is that men are starting to realize that they really don't have anything to gain by being married. And they are so afraid of having to go through a divorce that can wipe them out, that they don't feel like trying. I mean a 50% divorce rate in this country, is pretty much a coin toss on whether or not you lose everything. Seriously the only thing to gain by being married is savin…

As one married coworker of mine recently put it "I don't care if I get a raise or a bonus because my wife will just spend it and I can't divorce her because that's just as expensive. The only joy she can't take away from me is writing clean, fast code."

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#29

Post by tlb »

vaksel wrote: post #24

I think additional part of the problem is that men are starting to realize that they really don't have anything to gain by being married. And they are so afraid of having to go through a divorce that can wipe them out, that they don't feel like trying. I mean a 50% divorce rate in this country, is pretty much a coin toss on whether or not you lose everything. Seriously the only thing to gain by being married is savin…

Assuming you're in the US, you see a biased sample. That is, you see a complete cross section of American women, but only a select group of ambitious European women who emigrated as adults. They are here because they are serious about their careers, so they are more likely to believe in working hard to get ahead rather than getting by on their looks.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#30

Post by inglorian »

vaksel wrote: post #24

I think additional part of the problem is that men are starting to realize that they really don't have anything to gain by being married. And they are so afraid of having to go through a divorce that can wipe them out, that they don't feel like trying. I mean a 50% divorce rate in this country, is pretty much a coin toss on whether or not you lose everything. Seriously the only thing to gain by being married is savin…

I'm always surprised to see the extreme bitterness that comes out on these threads.

>>Every single married guy I know is MISERABLE. The sex pretty much stops within the first couple of years. And the woman gains mega weight, because now that they "got" you, they don't need to keep in shape. And then the whole bitchy wife comes out treating the guy as a second class citizen.

You do seem to know an awful lot of extremely unhappy couples. That's not my experience at all. For example, my parents are in their fifties and still have sex 3+ times a week, a fact I wish I didn't know. I know many other very happily married couples.

Obviously, my anecdotal evidence is just as useless as yours...I don't see how we can generalize that there is nothing to gain by being married.

The divorce rate is 50%...but the failure rate of startups is even higher. Starting a startup and failing can also ruin you financially and burn you out -- should we then assume that it is a stupid idea to start one?

>>Marrying an American woman is pretty much the worst decision you can make.

I am not an American girl, though I recently moved to the states. I am European myself -- and I have met just as many cultured, intelligent, kind American women as European ones. Why do you hate American women so much? Perhaps by "nice European girl" you are imagining an especially submissive woman? Perhaps your experience with American women only extends to suburban princesses and soccer moms?

Either way, I can assure you that your explicit hatred of American women ensures that you will never meet one that you will like.

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