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Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

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Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#21

Post by izacus »

netsharc wrote: post #13
Zigurd wrote: post #9

Everyone who can afford a car with an infotainment system also has a high-end smart phone that they replace several times over the life of the car. It's not quite as bad an idea as putting a tablet in your refrigerator door, but the product lifespan mismatch is of the same nature. To handle the case where the customer would prefer not to think about interfacing their phone or tablet to their car, a branded compatible…

In the US, reversing cameras have been mandatory since 2018, and in the EU since 2024, so any new car sold there will need a display for the camera output. I wonder if the law specified a minimum display size and resolution, otherwise a car company could sell a car with an Apple-watch-sized display to save costs. I imagine selling a car where the display depends on the user's phone and complying with these laws will…

The workaround I've seen was manufacturers putting reverse cameras in rear view mirrors.

I can't find a picture right now (man, internet search sucks nowadays), but e.g. lower trims of Kia Optima had it.

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#22

Post by izacus »

jdalgetty wrote: post #14

I had no idea Garmin made stuff like this.

While I didn't know it did for cars, Garmin is one of the most popular manufacturers of airplane avionics (which are basically plane "infotainment" screens), so I guess it makes sense.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviation/axis/overview/

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#23

Post by embedding-shape »

jdalgetty wrote: post #14

I had no idea Garmin made stuff like this.

Garmin makes so many things, from dome radars to bicycle lights, to car audio and golf gear, and everything in-between. All of the stuff I've bought with Garmin also manages to be really high quality and long-lasting. Not affiliated, guess I'm just a happy customer.

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#24

Post by TacticalCoder »

alright2565 wrote: post #3

I haven't driven this particular car, but if it's anything like any other infotainment system I've seen, I'm really hoping they're able get a profiler running on there to determine the technique they use to get massive frame drops on hardware they fully control.

> ... to determine the technique they use to get massive frame drops on hardware they fully control

I understand that's really lame but... who the heck gives a flying f--k about framerate in a car?

Are we talking about videos lagging for people sitting at the back (like kids)?

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#25

Post by vrinsd »

artisinal wrote: post #12
t0mas88 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW has a talent in that space. Over engineered modules with terrible software. I recently drove a Toyota rental and they seem to have hired some former BMW software people as well. I don't need 120hz Apple-like design, but it's crazy how they can't even keep a basic 30fps UI running smooth. And they still try to throw in more and more bad running animations.

Those UIs are made by embedded software engineers that have been in the automotive sector for 40 years. They have no clue how to make a modern functioning UI. The company then hires a UX expert that draws out a full plan. The software engineers implement it, it looks identical to the UX specification… but occasionally drops to 10FPS. Probably because an important message passed by on the CAN-bus and that got a bit mo…

I think IF they had hired embedded software engineers with 40 years of experience, those people would have delivered a UI that meets or exceeds all UI needs (even if it didn't look as visually appealing as it could). A 40-year embedded veteran knows how to write real-time code, structure the system and make it work under all conditions.

In fact I wager the OPPOSITE happened -- that they hired or outsourced software to people who have "web technology experience" and the UI and graphics architecture is a mishmash software stacks hastily thrown together (read: not architected).

Jaguar has a similar issue with the I-PACE where the HVAC system couldn't keep up with the knobs and would lag. A real embedded engineer who worked on real-time systems would know how to properly handle a quadrature encoded knob and NOT lag. A web-technology-first person who slapped something together using nodejs and/or Python would likely not know.

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#26

Post by [deleted] »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #24
alright2565 wrote: post #3

I haven't driven this particular car, but if it's anything like any other infotainment system I've seen, I'm really hoping they're able get a profiler running on there to determine the technique they use to get massive frame drops on hardware they fully control.

> ... to determine the technique they use to get massive frame drops on hardware they fully control I understand that's really lame but... who the heck gives a flying f--k about framerate in a car? Are we talking about videos lagging for people sitting at the back (like kids)?

[deleted]

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#28

Post by [deleted] »

netsharc wrote: post #13
Zigurd wrote: post #9

Everyone who can afford a car with an infotainment system also has a high-end smart phone that they replace several times over the life of the car. It's not quite as bad an idea as putting a tablet in your refrigerator door, but the product lifespan mismatch is of the same nature. To handle the case where the customer would prefer not to think about interfacing their phone or tablet to their car, a branded compatible…

In the US, reversing cameras have been mandatory since 2018, and in the EU since 2024, so any new car sold there will need a display for the camera output. I wonder if the law specified a minimum display size and resolution, otherwise a car company could sell a car with an Apple-watch-sized display to save costs. I imagine selling a car where the display depends on the user's phone and complying with these laws will…

[deleted]

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#29

Post by aand16 »

alright2565 wrote: post #3

I haven't driven this particular car, but if it's anything like any other infotainment system I've seen, I'm really hoping they're able get a profiler running on there to determine the technique they use to get massive frame drops on hardware they fully control.

> good devs are hard to find and expensive

> company contracts offshore agency

> devs costs drop by 20-40%

> offshore agency grabs any warm body off the street, JS-adjacent experience and minimum English is only requirement

> keeps 40% of the money

> "how many story points for the 360° camera React component, guys?"

Re: Teardown: The BMW / Harman IDC23H Infotainment Unit (B423)

#30

Post by lukeh »

t0mas88 wrote: post #6
alright2565 wrote: post #3

I haven't driven this particular car, but if it's anything like any other infotainment system I've seen, I'm really hoping they're able get a profiler running on there to determine the technique they use to get massive frame drops on hardware they fully control.

BMW has a talent in that space. Over engineered modules with terrible software. I recently drove a Toyota rental and they seem to have hired some former BMW software people as well. I don't need 120hz Apple-like design, but it's crazy how they can't even keep a basic 30fps UI running smooth. And they still try to throw in more and more bad running animations.

Toyota is using Flutter I believe.
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