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A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

economist.com

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Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#21

Post by graemep »

watwut wrote: post #20
graemep wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, of course, but there all sorts of nuances to this. The Nazis wanted to return to ancient values, specifically the values they perceived as those of the classical world. Himmler thought Christianity was a plot by Paul to undermine the Roman Empire and aimed to eliminate the 10 Commandments. Hitler cited Sparta as an example of the sort of society he wanted to create.

I mean, yeah, mythical Sparta is the place worshipped by fascists of all times, including their own times. When you see people celebrating Sparta, you likely see fascists on the rise. But also, there were plenty of Christian and Catholic Nazi. Catholic priests (outside of Germany) actively worked toward Nazi project. Commandments are always malleable, including the "tho shall not kill" one. By the way, the recently e…

> But also, there were plenty of Christian and Catholic Nazi.

The Catholic Church condemned Nazi ideology in the 1930s and said racism is incompatible with Christianity. The story of the papal encyclical is quite interesting. Lots of priests ended up in prisons of concentration camps.

The Nazis were determined to specifically get rid of Christian values. They invented two new religions to try and replace it: Nazi neo-paganism and Positive Christianity.

Hitler was not a historian and hugely misinterpreted history, but the Nazi view of Sparta was not just a myth. Sparta was literally a society based on a racial hierarchy, with the Spartans structuring their society around keeping control of the helots.

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#22

Post by SubmarineClub »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #8
lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #4

Looked awful in basically all respects, and everyone I trust on film thought it was an embarrassment. A shame, and such an opportunity.

And yet most reviewers praise it. So either they are all wrong, or you move in very snobbish circles. Because 'an embarrassment' is extremely strong language that should be reserved for very bad movies and im quite sure this isn't. I didnt care for Tenet at all, which i thought wasted a good concept, but i would never call the movie an embarrassment because it was clearly very well made. I just didn't like it. But he…

> So either they are all wrong

You say this like it might be shocking. I would expect nothing more than major movie critics bandwagoning a movie like this.

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#24

Post by watwut »

graemep wrote: post #21
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yeah, mythical Sparta is the place worshipped by fascists of all times, including their own times. When you see people celebrating Sparta, you likely see fascists on the rise. But also, there were plenty of Christian and Catholic Nazi. Catholic priests (outside of Germany) actively worked toward Nazi project. Commandments are always malleable, including the "tho shall not kill" one. By the way, the recently e…

> But also, there were plenty of Christian and Catholic Nazi. The Catholic Church condemned Nazi ideology in the 1930s and said racism is incompatible with Christianity. The story of the papal encyclical is quite interesting. Lots of priests ended up in prisons of concentration camps. The Nazis were determined to specifically get rid of Christian values. They invented two new religions to try and replace it: Nazi neo…

Jozef Tiso was catholic priest and president. He presided over deportation and ultimate killing of Slovak Jews. This was very much Catholic project, where hate toward jews was preached from the churches. And it was openly nazi, including Hitler salutes. Significant majority of government were Catholics, most priests (its catholic country) and high profile pushers for the deportations were Catholic priests. The arguments for the deportation were both national and religious.

The Catholic Church was instrumental rather then objecting.

Also German nazi had appeal to conservative Catholics in Germany, they were one of the constituencies voting for them. You had some nazi into neo-paganism, sure, but the cross with conservative Catholics was real.

---------

And like I said, recently excommunicated group of priest was founded by a famous French nazi. They were hiding him for years after the war.

Current pope is definitely not a nazi, just for the record. Absolutely not, he truly sees races as equal and poor as equal. Nor he is left wing as some say, he is conservative without crossing to far right side. But he also makes uglier undercurrent in catholic church fairly angry. Not counting Vance here btw, he seems to be in a very small weird mini group of his own.

---------

Sparta was fascists, but not really into race science. That was discovered only later. If they were racial, they would be better able to keep their numbers - but instead their system ensured the amount of citizens was smaller and smaller.

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#25

Post by watwut »

krapp wrote: post #19
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, he cares about Penelope? I thought he just wanted to get back to his kingdom.

I liked Angela Collier's video essay about the Odyssey[0] (ostensibly about casting a Muppet version but more generally about the issues involved with adaptations in general), where she points out that modern audiences want the Odyssey to be a romance but that just isn't how ancient Greek culture worked. Odysseus and Penelope are nobles, their relationship isn't based on romance or love, it's transactional, it's abou…

> This is treated as as a virtue, part of Odysseus reestablishing his rightful authority.

Treating it is a virtue is very much translation dependent aspect. Some translations treats them as guilty sluts, but not all.

It is a thing he does, but not necessary "virtuous" thing.

Also, Penelope is actively defending her faith to him. She did not had to, she could marry a suitor and save herself a trouble.

Historical arranged marriage are not romances, but people grow to have relationships to each other. People do care, just like we care about cousins, siblings or other unchoosen groups. It can grow to hate and abuse too, but those are not present in Odyssey.

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#26

Post by UncleMeat »

epolanski wrote: post #3
damienmeur wrote: post #2

The film won't mark generations like Interstellar but is far from being silly. This is a deliberate interpretation of the Odyssey with a very interresting approach IMO: can a man who destroys a whole civilization can come back home as a hero ? The main theme is about shame and how to deal with it. The film is really pretty good and far above any avg blockbuster.

And as the economist points out this is really an interpretation of our times because in no part of the Odyssey (which I've read) there is such an emphasis, it's all about coming home.

A great thing about literature is that it can be expressed in different contexts. A piece of art being about one thing at one time does not mean that we cannot use that art to explore a different thing at a different time.

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#27

Post by AngryData »

caidan wrote: post #9
damienmeur wrote: post #2

The film won't mark generations like Interstellar but is far from being silly. This is a deliberate interpretation of the Odyssey with a very interresting approach IMO: can a man who destroys a whole civilization can come back home as a hero ? The main theme is about shame and how to deal with it. The film is really pretty good and far above any avg blockbuster.

I don’t know, Interstellar is one of the silliest movies I’ve ever seen…

Yeah I really don't get the praise for it. I doubt ill ever have the desire to watch it again.

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#28

Post by jti107 »

watched it on IMAX and I thought it was great. personally I love movies and I've been a big fan of Christopher Nolan and the only movie I didn't like from him was Tenet.

also lots of reviews online about it being woke, if this is you then skip it...this is art from an artist and if you don't like his vision then skip the movie. no one is forcing you to watch it

Re: A Silly Adaptation of "The Odyssey"

#30

Post by nyeah »

jti107 wrote: post #28

watched it on IMAX and I thought it was great. personally I love movies and I've been a big fan of Christopher Nolan and the only movie I didn't like from him was Tenet. also lots of reviews online about it being woke, if this is you then skip it...this is art from an artist and if you don't like his vision then skip the movie. no one is forcing you to watch it

Yeah I don't understand the kvetching about someone making a movie. What's the downside? * The movie might suck. * Millions of people might watch a movie I don't like * Family or friends might force me to watch it.

Two words: why should I care?

Exception: If you personally are Homer, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

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