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Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

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Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#21

Post by blooalien »

pstuart wrote: post #15
rtutz wrote: post #3

Climate change already feels chaotic in a sense that earth is heading towards so many tipping points that it is impossible to keep track. In addition, each aspect resides in a niche of a complex system, difficult to grasp. AMOC collapse, melting permafrost methane release, species extinction, intense El Niño, ... All of them are not easily to follow, let alone understand. It's getting wild. To my surprise, media cove…

It's beyond disheartening. In a sick way, we totally deserve getting hit now because it seemed like a lot of climate "reasoning" was "this is going to be bad for future generations, we don't have to worry about it now". > A couple years ago, I would have expected some kind of awakening with global efforts, but the opposite is the case. I'm a literal greybeard who has lived in liberal bubbles on the Left Coast my enti…

> We have the resources, science, technology and people to live in an approximation of utopia, but instead we have.... this.

I've argued this exact thing (and been ridiculed as "naive" and "tree-hugging hippie" for it) most of my adult life (until recently where I no longer care because humanity has already made the choice now and nothing I can say or do will change it). We've had the technology, and we've been adding to it for decades now, but still we choose to use it in the worst possible ways, to (further) enrich the worst possible people and burn the world to the ground.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#22

Post by littlexsparkee »

colechristensen wrote: post #20
littlexsparkee wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cheap dismissal - if you had any good counters, you would have attacked the reasoning instead of reaching for that.

No it's not, I'm perfectly willing to discuss the sibling comment. I'm not willing to discuss with an LLM with a human intermediary. Your answer parrots what Google (gemini) says when you search with a question targeted as disagreeing with me. (I tried, out of curiosity)

I already had the topsoil argument in mind before involving an LLM but your argument is that I shouldn't adopt more precise language or add claims I didn't originally think of because of the source? How is information from a search engine different? Should people purposely have shallower debates whereby they pretend not to know new information simply to appear organic / avoid LLM allegations? You would put an expert into the same bucket for having a comprehensive argument.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#23

Post by colechristensen »

littlexsparkee wrote: post #22
colechristensen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not, I'm perfectly willing to discuss the sibling comment. I'm not willing to discuss with an LLM with a human intermediary. Your answer parrots what Google (gemini) says when you search with a question targeted as disagreeing with me. (I tried, out of curiosity)

I already had the topsoil argument in mind before involving an LLM but your argument is that I shouldn't adopt more precise language or add claims I didn't originally think of because of the source? How is information from a search engine different? Should people purposely have shallower debates whereby they pretend not to know new information simply to appear organic / avoid LLM allegations? You would put an expert…

If you start with a doomer mentality it is already very unlikely that you have any wish to discuss anything, you just want to create a list of arguments that all end with some variation of "we're doomed".

Paired with an LLM which regardless will generally be ~80% agreeable with you, the conversation will literally be unending. After each point there will be a rebuttal of doom and very little reason involved on the human side in the middle. Unable to be convinced of anything and paraphrasing LLMs all along the way, the conversation is pointless.

If I wanted an endless disagreement with an LLM I could set that up in my own time, I don't have to do it in public. Or I could find a friendly toddler in their "Why?" phase.

If you'd like we can prime a couple of LLMs with our opinions and watch them go back and forth without us.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#24

Post by littlexsparkee »

colechristensen wrote: post #23
littlexsparkee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already had the topsoil argument in mind before involving an LLM but your argument is that I shouldn't adopt more precise language or add claims I didn't originally think of because of the source? How is information from a search engine different? Should people purposely have shallower debates whereby they pretend not to know new information simply to appear organic / avoid LLM allegations? You would put an expert…

If you start with a doomer mentality it is already very unlikely that you have any wish to discuss anything, you just want to create a list of arguments that all end with some variation of "we're doomed". Paired with an LLM which regardless will generally be ~80% agreeable with you, the conversation will literally be unending. After each point there will be a rebuttal of doom and very little reason involved on the hu…

That's okay, hope you enjoyed your petty digs - the world is a simple closed system that just needs some sulfur pixie dust to patch up and all the scientists are doomers. Thanks for your contributions.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#25

Post by DangitBobby »

colechristensen wrote: post #23
littlexsparkee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already had the topsoil argument in mind before involving an LLM but your argument is that I shouldn't adopt more precise language or add claims I didn't originally think of because of the source? How is information from a search engine different? Should people purposely have shallower debates whereby they pretend not to know new information simply to appear organic / avoid LLM allegations? You would put an expert…

If you start with a doomer mentality it is already very unlikely that you have any wish to discuss anything, you just want to create a list of arguments that all end with some variation of "we're doomed". Paired with an LLM which regardless will generally be ~80% agreeable with you, the conversation will literally be unending. After each point there will be a rebuttal of doom and very little reason involved on the hu…

On the flipside, if you suffer from positivity bias you'd probably be able to ignore an existential threat if it spit in your face.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#26

Post by colechristensen »

DangitBobby wrote: post #25
colechristensen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you start with a doomer mentality it is already very unlikely that you have any wish to discuss anything, you just want to create a list of arguments that all end with some variation of "we're doomed". Paired with an LLM which regardless will generally be ~80% agreeable with you, the conversation will literally be unending. After each point there will be a rebuttal of doom and very little reason involved on the hu…

On the flipside, if you suffer from positivity bias you'd probably be able to ignore an existential threat if it spit in your face.

does not-ignoring an existential threat look like wailing THE END IS NEAR at every opportunity and coming up with no remotely viable suggestions besides a vague idea of shutting down the global economy and/or just endlessly saying we're not doing enough?

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#27

Post by netsharc »

pstuart wrote: post #15
rtutz wrote: post #3

Climate change already feels chaotic in a sense that earth is heading towards so many tipping points that it is impossible to keep track. In addition, each aspect resides in a niche of a complex system, difficult to grasp. AMOC collapse, melting permafrost methane release, species extinction, intense El Niño, ... All of them are not easily to follow, let alone understand. It's getting wild. To my surprise, media cove…

It's beyond disheartening. In a sick way, we totally deserve getting hit now because it seemed like a lot of climate "reasoning" was "this is going to be bad for future generations, we don't have to worry about it now". > A couple years ago, I would have expected some kind of awakening with global efforts, but the opposite is the case. I'm a literal greybeard who has lived in liberal bubbles on the Left Coast my enti…

> how horrible a large segment of humanity is.

The well-off don't want to give up even an inch of luxury. Climate refugees from South America, Africa, Middle East (1)? Why not view them as people who are trying to steal jobs, live off of social benefits, and eat our cats and dogs, if we manage to dehumanize them, then we don't have to see their human suffering...

(1) The Syrian conflict happened after prolonged drought drove farmers to the cities to find work, creating a lot of social friction, the larger Arab Spring happened because of food price hikes after 2010 forest fires in Russia made the country reduce wheat exports.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#28

Post by leonidasrup »

colechristensen wrote: post #18
leonidasrup wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the global share of primary energy solar is this very small player (less the hydro, much less then coal, or natural gas, or oil), data from 2024. https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption How much does the increase solar production decrease world-wide CO2 emmisions? Because CO2 emissions in 2025 were still increasing. I see that in many growing countries solar power is not seen as a replacement for…

Solar energy production has increased 20-30% year over year every year for the last decade. If this continues peak oil production will occur in the next five years, if not 2026 itself. The wars in Iran and Ukraine are added global motivation for this change. The velocity and acceleration of CO2 and energy production are the far more important metrics. >Lets hope we don't reproduce the PT event. When/if we really need…

"LNG exports from the U.S. have grown dramatically and steadily since 2016. The rate of increase is a stunning 38% year-over-year."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpalmer/2026/05/27/exports-of...

The wars in Iran and Ukraine will increase US fossil fuel exports.

We need global carbon tax, to cause decrease in CO2 emissions, solar energy is not enough.

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#29

Post by spwa4 »

netsharc wrote: post #27
pstuart wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's beyond disheartening. In a sick way, we totally deserve getting hit now because it seemed like a lot of climate "reasoning" was "this is going to be bad for future generations, we don't have to worry about it now". > A couple years ago, I would have expected some kind of awakening with global efforts, but the opposite is the case. I'm a literal greybeard who has lived in liberal bubbles on the Left Coast my enti…

> how horrible a large segment of humanity is. The well-off don't want to give up even an inch of luxury. Climate refugees from South America, Africa, Middle East (1)? Why not view them as people who are trying to steal jobs, live off of social benefits, and eat our cats and dogs, if we manage to dehumanize them, then we don't have to see their human suffering... (1) The Syrian conflict happened after prolonged droug…

The middle east is refrigerating entire cities. They are obviously capable of fixing the climate for their entire population, they just choose not to, while using incredible amounts of fossil fuels on extreme comfort for the rich.

https://www.treehugger.com/largest-air-conditioned-city-to-b...

Re: Tropical forests facing increasing risks of exposure to critical temp thresholds

#30

Post by DangitBobby »

colechristensen wrote: post #26
DangitBobby wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flipside, if you suffer from positivity bias you'd probably be able to ignore an existential threat if it spit in your face.

does not-ignoring an existential threat look like wailing THE END IS NEAR at every opportunity and coming up with no remotely viable suggestions besides a vague idea of shutting down the global economy and/or just endlessly saying we're not doing enough?

No, it doesn't look like a strawman. Your poor and vague characterization of the enormous amount of effective action we can take shows how motivated you are to ignore the reality of the situation in favor of the reality you prefer, which is the one where you can feel okay with doing nothing. Please fuck off and stop actively hindering people who give enough of a shit to do anything. Thanks.
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