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Capitalism Gone Wrong

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Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#21

Post by Telaneo »

changoplatanero wrote: post #14

How come legislators want to stop social media companies from using their power to manipulate consumers, but aren’t as interested in other industries doing the same? Like imagine how much harm is caused by the luxury fashion industry manipulating people to spend $20,000 on ugly leather bags? Or the jewelry industry in getting people to buy shiny rocks? Or sports gambling companies? That money could have been used for…

> Like imagine how much harm is caused by the luxury fashion industry manipulating people to spend $20,000 on ugly leather bags?

The EU is actually working on that, at least from the environmental angle.[1]

Beyond that, I agree, but in a 'yes, we should do that too; that doesn't mean we shouldn't do this' way.

[1] https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-eu-rules-stop-dest...

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#22

Post by celeries »

Switching to a more ethical model than advertisements hardly helps. Most tech companies are competing for people's attention, so making one platform less addictive just means the attention will be consumed by the next most addictive platform.

Ads aren't really the problem, either. It's the fact that people are willing to fork over so much of their lives to media feeds. It's a false community, a sea of information filled with faux connection.

The only way out of this trap is to invest in your local community. Meet people in real life and spend time with them and form mutual relationships. Media feeds aren't necessarily bad, but you need to prioritize them according to the innate human need for real community.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#23

Post by pupppet »

rhelz wrote: post #3

It's not capitalism gone wrong. It's a great example of a historic success of capitalism. You can't expect capitalism to solve your addiction problems.

If capitalism promotes suffering then maybe capitalism is the problem.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#25

Post by vannevar »

This is a specific example of a more general problem: the ability of capital to manufacture demand and not merely satisfy it. An implicit assumption about supply and demand is that they are largely independent market forces, that demand is an organic and emergent phenomenon arising from the desires and ambitions of free individuals, and that supply reacts to demand. But first mass marketing and now hyper-targeted marketing turn that assumption on its head, and given sufficient capital, you can manipulate consumers into buying something that, left to their own devices, they otherwise would not. The harm that this can cause is most easily seen in the addictive context, but it appears throughout the market as a lost opportunity cost: to what more beneficial use would they have put that money had they not been subject to the manipulation?

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#26

Post by saulpw »

changoplatanero wrote: post #14

How come legislators want to stop social media companies from using their power to manipulate consumers, but aren’t as interested in other industries doing the same? Like imagine how much harm is caused by the luxury fashion industry manipulating people to spend $20,000 on ugly leather bags? Or the jewelry industry in getting people to buy shiny rocks? Or sports gambling companies? That money could have been used for…

Because of scale. Social media companies manipulate literally billions of people, whereas the luxury fashion industry only manipulates millions of people.

Sports gambling is another example of the issue at scale. When it was at a racetrack, it's naturally limited to those who can go to that physical location. When it moved to OTB, the scale goes up an order of magnitude. When it moves online and to apps, the scale goes up again. And so it's become important to regulate.

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#27

Post by blooalien »

celeries wrote: post #22

Switching to a more ethical model than advertisements hardly helps. Most tech companies are competing for people's attention, so making one platform less addictive just means the attention will be consumed by the next most addictive platform. Ads aren't really the problem, either. It's the fact that people are willing to fork over so much of their lives to media feeds. It's a false community, a sea of information fil…

> Ads aren't really the problem, either.

You're right. Ads are a different problem that just happens to finance this problem (and many others).

> Meet people in real life and spend time with them and form mutual relationships.

It's sad how hard that's gotten these days, what with so many folks havin' their faces glued to their little glass slab all the time. :(

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#28

Post by ericd »

Telaneo wrote: post #20
jmathai wrote: post #4

I agree with everything the article says. I think there are two questions that we should be asking. 1. Can we point to a time when Capitalism peaked in terms of a balance of maximal benefit for as many people as possible? In my lifetime, it was somewhere in the late 1990s and early 2000s. No singular answer but something better exists than where we are now. 2. How do we rewind capitalism to that point?

I have very little faith that it will be very possible to rewind to that point. Not because the technology of today is different, or even the legal landscape, but simply due to the cultural landscape being different. Pandora's box has been opened, and it cannot be closed. To me at least, there seems to have been some cut-off point where nothing but money mattered, and someone realised that consumers will just take th…

I think more penalties involving "you aren't allowed to operate until this is fixed" rather than fines would help.

Also, this is a pretty good take on a lot of related topics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTmpwVCC2So

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#29

Post by simianwords »

Analemma_ wrote: post #11
rhelz wrote: post #3

It's not capitalism gone wrong. It's a great example of a historic success of capitalism. You can't expect capitalism to solve your addiction problems.

This is emblematic of a certain kind of foolish libertarian thinking where capitalism is treated as an end rather than a means. To normal people, the entire selling point of capitalism is that it is pitched as the best way to achieve a happy and comfortable life for the greatest number. If it's working against that end, what good is it? Toss it out and replace it.

You have zero theory of mind if you think the poster is a libertarian instead of making a tongue in cheek comment

Re: Capitalism Gone Wrong

#30

Post by celeries »

blooalien wrote: post #27
celeries wrote: post #22

Switching to a more ethical model than advertisements hardly helps. Most tech companies are competing for people's attention, so making one platform less addictive just means the attention will be consumed by the next most addictive platform. Ads aren't really the problem, either. It's the fact that people are willing to fork over so much of their lives to media feeds. It's a false community, a sea of information fil…

> Ads aren't really the problem, either. You're right. Ads are a different problem that just happens to finance this problem (and many others). > Meet people in real life and spend time with them and form mutual relationships. It's sad how hard that's gotten these days, what with so many folks havin' their faces glued to their little glass slab all the time. :(

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree. They are unreasonably effective, but I think that's in large part because people have lost touch with reality. People tend not to think very critically about ads.
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