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Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

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Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#21

Post by manarth »

SoftTalker wrote: post #16

The story of the Vasa is one of my favorites for lessons in building software or anything complicated. Though I'm not sure how much of the story is actually true, it's still a good fable if nothing else.

    "I'm not sure how much of the story is actually true"
The history and archaeology of the Vasa has been extensively studied by experts in their relevant fields – archaeology, history, dendrochronology, marine biology…

Some stories – like the one published here by FT – are overly simplistic. For a good, accurate, scientific history of the Vasa, the Vasa Museum's site is extremely detailed (and also separates supposition and apocryphal tales from established science).

Website of the Vasa Museum in Stockholm: https://www.vasamuseet.se/

Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#22

Post by jccooper »

Hikikomori wrote: post #13
fifilura wrote: post #12

I find it ironic that the most prominent museum in Sweden is for a ship that only made it 3km before sinking. While in Norway you can visit and walk aboard the "Fram". The most successful Arctic Exploration ship. https://frammuseum.no/our-exhibitions/fram/

Vasa is a fair bit older, are there any other as well preserved from its time?

There's not much older than the Vasa that is essentially intact. The Vasa is in good enough shape to have been recovered as a ship, and not as a shipwreck or an archaeological dig, which is pretty remarkable. I think there's one Ottoman galley a bit older that's been continuously maintained, and that's about it.

Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#24

Post by SoftTalker »

manarth wrote: post #21
SoftTalker wrote: post #16

The story of the Vasa is one of my favorites for lessons in building software or anything complicated. Though I'm not sure how much of the story is actually true, it's still a good fable if nothing else.

"I'm not sure how much of the story is actually true" The history and archaeology of the Vasa has been extensively studied by experts in their relevant fields – archaeology, history, dendrochronology, marine biology… Some stories – like the one published here by FT – are overly simplistic. For a good, accurate, scientific history of the Vasa, the Vasa Museum's site is extremely detailed (and also separates suppositio…

Yeah I didn't mean the truth is unknown, just that the popular version of the story (major design changes mandated late in the build by an executive who didn't understand the consequences of what they were asking for) might not be exactly true, depending on who is telling the story.

Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#25

Post by fifilura »

jccooper wrote: post #22
Hikikomori wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vasa is a fair bit older, are there any other as well preserved from its time?

There's not much older than the Vasa that is essentially intact. The Vasa is in good enough shape to have been recovered as a ship, and not as a shipwreck or an archaeological dig, which is pretty remarkable. I think there's one Ottoman galley a bit older that's been continuously maintained, and that's about it.

The reason it well preserved is the brackish water in Baltic Sea where the shipworm doesn't thrive.

Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#27

Post by _doctor_love »

SoftTalker wrote: post #24
manarth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm not sure how much of the story is actually true" The history and archaeology of the Vasa has been extensively studied by experts in their relevant fields – archaeology, history, dendrochronology, marine biology… Some stories – like the one published here by FT – are overly simplistic. For a good, accurate, scientific history of the Vasa, the Vasa Museum's site is extremely detailed (and also separates suppositio…

Yeah I didn't mean the truth is unknown, just that the popular version of the story (major design changes mandated late in the build by an executive who didn't understand the consequences of what they were asking for) might not be exactly true, depending on who is telling the story.

The deeper issue was that no-one had the ability to push back on the king's demands. When the king rules by divine right, pushing back on the stakeholder is pushing back on God. Back in the day that was a great way to expedite the process of your head being separated from your torso.

Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#28

Post by _doctor_love »

mgaunard wrote: post #17

I feel like people use this "remember the Vasa" idea every 6 months. Yes, we all remember the Vasa, and understand how it applies to any untested overengineered idea.

> Yes, we all remember the Vasa, and understand how it applies to any untested overengineered idea.

We clearly do not given that this story repeats over and over again.

Re: Lessons from the Vasa Shipwreck

#30

Post by somat »

jccooper wrote: post #22
Hikikomori wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vasa is a fair bit older, are there any other as well preserved from its time?

There's not much older than the Vasa that is essentially intact. The Vasa is in good enough shape to have been recovered as a ship, and not as a shipwreck or an archaeological dig, which is pretty remarkable. I think there's one Ottoman galley a bit older that's been continuously maintained, and that's about it.

The hard part(especially for large vehicles) is to survive that era past when it is valued as a working vehicle and before it is valued as a historical vehicle, At that point is is just junk. Large expensive junk.

I was recently reading about the original great Chicago wheel(The Ferris wheel). it lasted about 10 years, nobody wanted it. The contract said the fair land had to be restored to original form. So they just blew it up, nothing left, did not even try to save a car. The other disappointing part was that Ferris was a bit secretive and no technical drawings for it are known to exist. I really wanted to know how it was powered, more that the blurb you get in the articles. Best I found from the pictures is there are cast wide spaced(not gear spaced) drive slots riveted to the rim and vague mentions of a chain. Some sort of wide spaced bicycle type chain in partial engagement against the rim?

See also: The USS Enterprise(CV-6) if any ship deserved to be a museum ship that one did, but they were not able to muster the enthusiasm needed at the time she was broken up.

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