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Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

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Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#21
post #11

The psilocybin dosage in this study seems to be miniscule (5mg, 25mg), which is fair given its controversial reputation (undeserved IMO) and researchers’ plausible risk aversion. However, to see meaningful improvements in TRD I’d expect larger doses to be necessary for most people.

~2.5g of psilocybe cubensis is considered a standard dose; according to this [0] study, ~10mg/g is a pretty typical psilocybin concentration in mushrooms, so 25mg of pure psilocybin sounds about right.

[0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11856550/

Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#22

I've always wondered if one dose of LSD could have been responsible for a fundamental change in my mind. There were other things of course going on in those college years, but I can say wth certainty that I became a very different person at some point in those early to mid twenties. It's such that I have wondered if those I know who suffer various emotional issues might not benefit from a hallucinogenic trip—perhaps…

If you have a messy room, you don't throw a grenade in hopes that after explosion things will end up in "better" places than before.

Hence the wisdom of the 'already been there': (Mind)set and setting.

A 'clinical' environment, may not be the ideal setting for some patients.

I don't think psychedelics are going to be any different to any other officially approved psychiatric medicine - we don't know enough to know which subset of patients will respond well vs. poorly for psychedelics any more than already available FDA approved (or equivalent similar organisations for other nations) of psychiatric medicines, which in some cases fuck people over for life after a single dose. Large numbers of people have permanently suffered a massively reduced quality of life as a result of a single Invega injection, yet it's still administered regardless.

All I know, is that we don't know enough to know enough.

My personal empirical experience is that I'm wired backwards and have atypical responses to what is now available due to the clinical phase 3 trial majority response, and have personally suffered from supposed experts applying the 'approved' treatments. Even my current psychologist admits they're in foggy territory which makes her better than previous medical professionals I've dealt with.

Advances in physiological medicine changes before and during my lifetime have been incredible. Advances in psychiatric medicine during my lifetime have been a result of capitalist companies gaming systems to create revenue streams rather than improve the overall well-being of humans. The war on drugs just stifled understanding of what options are out there, and what cause-effect mechanisms exist.

It's nice to see independent studies above and beyond the other end of the extremists (e.g. MAPS) contributing to understanding, even though sample sizes are miniscule compared to what we need.

We're currently gambling/playing the probabilistic statistic odds on psychiatric medications without knowing the 'why/how' they work.

We still don't fully understand the mechanisms of action of Aspirin which was first synthesised well over a century ago, and been in widespread use for many decades.

Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#23
post #17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While using GPTs to explore my own bias, I liked the re-phrasing "the chemical opens a window so that the profoundly human experience of care, safety, and novel emotion can finally get through to a brain that had walled itself off". Highlighting how the human experience is an intrinsic part of the benefit seen, but not the only part. (and I totally agree with you, alcohol is one of the strongest and also one of the l…

Indeed I suppose many are on the same opinion here… save for some super stubborn uneducated jerks who keep downvoting all my ‘Alcochol-is-likely-worse-than-LSD’ comments without even getting into reasonable argument.

The opposition you face is purely statistical, based on the fact that alcohol is by far the most commercially successful recreational drug.

When statistics are so biased, quality of objective argument is swamped by simple numbers.

Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#24

I've always wondered if one dose of LSD could have been responsible for a fundamental change in my mind. There were other things of course going on in those college years, but I can say wth certainty that I became a very different person at some point in those early to mid twenties. It's such that I have wondered if those I know who suffer various emotional issues might not benefit from a hallucinogenic trip—perhaps…

I think it's highly dependent on the environment of the trip alongside the reaction. I doubt if they freak out it'll have the same efficacy.

Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, using LSD once is higher risk than one night of drinking.

That is definitely 100% false. You can drink yourself to death in a night, I almost did. Woke up in the ICU after blacking out with an O2 of 70%. You have never done LSD so I won’t even bother with my experiences on it other than you don’t lose your sense of reality, risk or self-preservation.

I have friends who have had serious permanent vision changes as a result of taking a reasonable dose of psychedelics one time (which is one of the main reasons I haven't tried it). If you overdose on either lsd or alcohol you'll have serious ill effects.

Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolute nonsense and is not backed by any sane scientific evidence. Using alcohol even once, in the quantities readily made available everywhere where alcohol is available, can finish you off in the most diverse and bizarre ways. What’s even more ridiculous is the fact even quarter pill of the Xanax kind mixed a very limited amount of alcohol gets you potentially higher than most psychedelics when properly d…

Bit of an aside, but a quarter of Xanax can also immediately take you out of an LSD trip.

[deleted]

Re: Efficacy and Safety of Psilocybin in Treatment-Resistant Major Depression

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is definitely 100% false. You can drink yourself to death in a night, I almost did. Woke up in the ICU after blacking out with an O2 of 70%. You have never done LSD so I won’t even bother with my experiences on it other than you don’t lose your sense of reality, risk or self-preservation.

I have friends who have had serious permanent vision changes as a result of taking a reasonable dose of psychedelics one time (which is one of the main reasons I haven't tried it). If you overdose on either lsd or alcohol you'll have serious ill effects.

Vision changes are part of any intoxication, most avid alcohol users have them all the time. You have vision changes due to high blood pressure, so vision is perhaps not a KPI to put on the table as a major one.
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