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America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

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Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#21

Post by egorfine »

schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

> immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine)

I have been invited in one of the UA/EU UAV cooperation programs. The largest government body is behind this program. The invitation was a 38-page PDF, out of which 36 pages were dedicated to regulatory compliance and No, EU will not reconsider their beliefs.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#22

Post by egorfine »

tommica wrote: post #3

Nah, we rather regulate ourselves out of existence. Any investment you do, the money will go to paying random taxes and fees to services that make sure you are filling the arbitrary criteria of bullshit. Maybe after that you have some pocket change to spend on your idea instead. And if you do happen to make a successful company, then the governments want a cut of that too, because making money is a no-no thing.

> you have some pocket change to spend

Bear in mind that at this point you will owe in taxes multiple times over what your whole company is worth.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#23

Post by StefanBatory »

schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

I just don't think we are able to do things. Language and countries split us apart.

Americans have one big internal market. Chinese as well. Indians - also.

In Europe? We just can't, you need to start in one country, you need to localise your products, then offer support in various languages, and I didn't even start to say anything about various tax laws or laws in general in other countries of the Union.

I believe that's the biggest issue we have and it will never be resolved.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#24

Post by Chu4eeno »

dv_dt wrote: post #17
dzhiurgis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Best deal for the consumer is king Except best deal for consumer is subsidized (aka dumping) by CCP until local competition is destroyed. Next year solar and batteries are going to have price hikes because China finally stopped export subsidies. But then perhaps if you believe Peter Thiels "Competition is for suckers" thesis then enabling monopoly focus on cost rather than competition is best for everyone.

Dumping is the word used for some other nations effective industrial development policy

No, it literally is dumping.

E. g. Chinese EV makers were selling at a loss (even with subsidies) until very recently this year and are struggling immensely now.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#25

Post by pseudony »

StefanBatory wrote: post #23
schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

I just don't think we are able to do things. Language and countries split us apart. Americans have one big internal market. Chinese as well. Indians - also. In Europe? We just can't, you need to start in one country, you need to localise your products, then offer support in various languages, and I didn't even start to say anything about various tax laws or laws in general in other countries of the Union. I believe t…

Well India has a diverse set of languages spread across its regions. As I understand it, the degree to which English thrives there is largely because choosing any other administrative language would be seen as oppressive to the other languages. Again, only stuff I picked up from the various Indian colleagues I have had.

Point being; I don’t think that is any different really from Europe. If they can manage, so can we.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#26

Post by nephihaha »

schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

As a European, I see the word "change" used all the time as if it is a good thing. Change is good, bad or indifferent depending on circumstances. It is not automatically progress.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#27

Post by starvar2 »

alephnerd wrote: post #12
stockerta wrote: post #8

Nah, we will be fine. AI isn't sustainable, financially or otherwise. It will collapse and take a big chunk of the US economy with it.

Anthropic and OpenAI have seen consistent revenue growth, as have their Chinese peers like Alibaba and DeepSeek. While some aspects of AI are overstated, it has had a very real and tangible impact at least in the US and China in a number of white collar roles. Additonally, the fact that China is allocating $295B [0] for an AI buildout as is the US [1] and are using it to also help their domestic GreenTech and DeepTec…

I'd rather have a world without "AI" then one with. As I see it, the negatives far outstrip the positives.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#28

Post by sakree »

antiloper wrote: post #19

Europe has no chips, no energy, no venture capital, and no training data. It is in fact too late.

indeed this. Idiotic policies and choices around green energy is killing europe, we struggle with energy prices in the winter for heating, nevermind energy for AI datacenters. And why would anyone start an AI company in europe? It's like picking hard mode over just doing it in the US. I honestly, see a bleak future for europe, and it saddens me as an european.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#29

Post by joe_mamba »

nephihaha wrote: post #26
schmuhblaster wrote: post #18

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments rec…

As a European, I see the word "change" used all the time as if it is a good thing. Change is good, bad or indifferent depending on circumstances. It is not automatically progress.

>It is not automatically progress.

Irrelevant. The world changes for better and for worse, whether you want to or not, and you can only ignore it and piss against the wind so long before you get wet.

Ignoring, resisting or opposing global change only works if you're THE global hegemon and can bully everyone else to operate by your rules. Europe is not, therefore it can't dictate terms for others so it can't keep resisting global changes without loosing more of its prosperity, leverage and influence to the rest of the world.

EU is stuck in the middle of the race between two superpowers, and if it refuses to take part in the race and sit it out, it will simply become a colony of the winning power(s). It's why the US entered WW1 and WW2 even if it didn't have to. Because if it didn't and just decided to sit it out chilling away from the conflit, it would have missed out on all the major industrial and technical progress the war effort has led to and the USSR would have swallowed everything. That's how it became the world hegemon.

EU on the other hand keeps deciding to sit out most of the global battles and gets left behind with no leverage in key sectors, then complains that its trading partners are treating it "unfairly". Well yeah, when you have no leverage you will only get sloppy seconds, that's how the world works. If you want a piece of the action, you have to get in the fight, get a little bloody, and take what you want, not sit by and expect the victor will share a piece of the spoils with you for free.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#30

Post by joe_mamba »

stockerta wrote: post #8

Nah, we will be fine. AI isn't sustainable, financially or otherwise. It will collapse and take a big chunk of the US economy with it.

>It will collapse and take a big chunk of the US economy with it.

I got news for you. If the US economy goes down, EU goes down with it, just like in 2009.

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