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Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

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Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#21

Post by ragazzina »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #12
rescbr wrote: post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems. Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating d…

> Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution

In my European country, people struggle to buy houses, nobody is rushing to do a full house renovation.

Furthermore, the consensus is: heat pumps are great for a new home or a full renovation. Installing a heat pump with old-style radiators makes no sense, because the heat pump heats to a low temperature.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#22

Post by m4rtink »

m2f2 wrote: post #19
sph wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is not a country. Given how many times we must have this conversation, I wonder if you guys are even taught geography in school?

Not yet, at least, but close to (thanks, POTUS). Back to AC... I have to fork out 4000€ to replace an aging AC in a small flat 60sqm (650 sq feet). Just looking out of my window right now I can see 600 similar places, so that's 2.4mil EUR for a couple of (city) blocks. As AC is to be added as it won't replace the winter central heating system we got in most condos -- well that's a lot of money.

Then you are being ripped off - I have seen 40000 Kč for a combined heat-pump/AC air/air unit here in the Czech Republic, which is about 1600 EUR. And you are getting a very efficient modern AC & heat pump.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#23

Post by petre »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #12
rescbr wrote: post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems. Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating d…

The leftists are free to sweat or freeze to the point of exhaustion then. Modern AC units with heat pumps are just great. I'm going to install one myself soon.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#24

Post by petre »

bob1029 wrote: post #2

I am curious about the power grid situation in Europe. Assume the rate of AC usage was as high as the US (or god forbid Japan), how far behind is the grid infrastructure from where it needs to be? ERCOT (Texas) has daily swings of up to 50 gigawatts of power in the summer. I am pretty sure it is the most volatile US grid in terms of the demand side. A lot of the transmission infrastructure is purpose built for this e…

They don't have any problem with impact from EVs on the grid, but god forbid AC units. One could obviously solve the peoblem with rooftop solar, which peaks just when you need AC the most.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#25

Post by revolvingthrow »

> sunlight causes most of the heat issues; cloudy days are unlikely to be extremely hot

> solar panels convert sunlight to electricity

> AC converts electricity to cooler air indoors

Ah, if only there was a way to solve those three problems at once. Alas...

As to the "resistance" to AC: is this an actual thing or just something the media made up? It seems that for the most part anyone who wants AC can just buy it, barring exceptions like historical buildings. If people want to cook themselves alive I’m not really seeing the issue, as they only harm themselves (unlike, say, with vaccines where herd immunity is important).

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#26

Post by discopicante »

throwa356262 wrote: post #3

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

The primary difference being, Europe is not increasing their number of fault lines or bodies of water. The number of days of moderate to extreme heat in Europe have already significantly increased and will continue to.

Furthermore, the costs of modern cooling are infinitely cheaper than solutions, if they exist, for other natural disasters.

I lived in both Europe and the United States and traveled around the world. This article makes a lot of sense to me.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#27

Post by subscribed »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #12
rescbr wrote: post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems. Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating d…

Far right parties want more fossil fuels burning for cooling and heating (more coal, more gas, more oil, more water pollution).

And I think that parties saying burning more fossil fuels doesn't fix the problem, like, at all, aren't particularly wrong? And they're also the ones trying to push for more solar/wind energy generation and more heat pumps (that can heat in the winter and cool in the summer).

Not sure what you're trying to convey or where you're taking your data from?

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#28

Post by ZeroGravitas »

ragazzina wrote: post #21
jurgenburgen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems. Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating d…

> Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution In my European country, people struggle to buy houses, nobody is rushing to do a full house renovation. Furthermore, the consensus is: heat pumps are great for a new home or a full renovation. Installing a heat pump with old-style radiators makes no sense, because the heat pump heats to a low temperature.

That's mostly outdated info, modern heat pumps can heat to high temps. They are more efficient if run at lower temps but so are condensing gas boilers, which are the most directly competing technology.
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