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California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

papersplease.org

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Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#21

Post by toast0 »

ck2 wrote: post #20

I thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway? Not that it's acceptable but federal database of drivers licenses is smallest of privacy problems these days with federal overreach NSA never ever stopped collecting phone calls, they have been storing that data in larger and larger databases in the deserts. Now "ai" can make all that into some insane level of…

> I thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway?

At least Washington state still issues UnrealID in case the applicant is not willing to pay the extra fee or cannot or willnot provide the extra documentation. I don't think UnrealIDs have to be submitted?

As I understand it, most other states rolled the extra cost into the general fee for IDs, but Washington does not like to spread costslike that.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#22

Post by jandrewrogers »

johng wrote: post #3

The article doesn't seem to go into any discussion or reasoning why Gavin Newsom would want to cooperate with this, seemingly against his own party? What are the downsides of not cooperating? What is his motivation or benefits for capitulating? Edit: Oh, ahhh I see: "Governor Gavin Newsom agreed to upload driver's license data to a national database primarily to comply with the Real ID Act of 2005 and avoid federal t…

States can implement Real ID without sharing the data with the Federal government. The only mandatory part is the standardization. States can (and do) share this data with each other directly.

The Federal government can't constructively require States to share the Real ID data with them, only ask politely, as that would go against existing Constitutional case law. Many States have declined to share Real ID data with the Federal government while still implementing Real ID. It is a bit surprising that California would agree to this.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#23

Post by FireBeyond »

ck2 wrote: post #20

I thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway? Not that it's acceptable but federal database of drivers licenses is smallest of privacy problems these days with federal overreach NSA never ever stopped collecting phone calls, they have been storing that data in larger and larger databases in the deserts. Now "ai" can make all that into some insane level of…

I don't have a RealID driver's license, and in my state I cannot, because I am not a citizen.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#24

Post by QGQBGdeZREunxLe »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #22
johng wrote: post #3

The article doesn't seem to go into any discussion or reasoning why Gavin Newsom would want to cooperate with this, seemingly against his own party? What are the downsides of not cooperating? What is his motivation or benefits for capitulating? Edit: Oh, ahhh I see: "Governor Gavin Newsom agreed to upload driver's license data to a national database primarily to comply with the Real ID Act of 2005 and avoid federal t…

States can implement Real ID without sharing the data with the Federal government. The only mandatory part is the standardization. States can (and do) share this data with each other directly. The Federal government can't constructively require States to share the Real ID data with them, only ask politely, as that would go against existing Constitutional case law. Many States have declined to share Real ID data with…

Which states have declined to share data?

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#26

Post by iamnothere »

toast0 wrote: post #21
ck2 wrote: post #20

I thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway? Not that it's acceptable but federal database of drivers licenses is smallest of privacy problems these days with federal overreach NSA never ever stopped collecting phone calls, they have been storing that data in larger and larger databases in the deserts. Now "ai" can make all that into some insane level of…

> I thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway? At least Washington state still issues UnrealID in case the applicant is not willing to pay the extra fee or cannot or willnot provide the extra documentation. I don't think UnrealIDs have to be submitted? As I understand it, most other states rolled the extra cost into the general fee for IDs, but Washington…

Unfortunately, the way the system is structured, once enough states are compliant then mandating the uploading ALL DLs to the system (Real ID or not) becomes possible without additional legislation. See https://papersplease.org/wp/2016/02/11/how-the-real-id-act-i...

> States aren’t (yet) required to upload pointers for noncompliant licenses or ID cards. There’s been no explicit announcement of the full live launch of S2S, but it appears that the first states are only beginning to use S2S (other than as a pilot project) this month. The DHS isn’t (yet) considering whether states have complied with the database access provisions of the REAL-ID Act when it makes its discretionary decisions whether to certify “material” compliance or “progress” toward compliance. But AAMVA, which determines the SPEXS standards, could add a requirement for upload of pointers for all licenses and IDs, not just “compliant” ones, to its specifications for system participation at any time. And the DHS will eventually have to assess actual compliance with the REAL-ID Act, not mere progress toward it. At that point, any state that wants to use S2S and SPEXS as the basis for a compliance finding will have to upload pointer records for all licenses and ID cards it has issued — even noncompliant or “opt-out” licenses or IDs.

This has the effect of creating a private national ID database, without transparency or accountability, which is kind of a worst-case scenario. (AAMVA is a private entity.)

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#27

Post by CharlesW »

wat10000 wrote: post #25

We should switch to a national ID system and be done with it. The patchwork we have is getting more ridiculous by the day.

Agreed, this would be a great way to streamline our country's government-controlled digital panopticon.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#28

Post by iamnothere »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #22
johng wrote: post #3

The article doesn't seem to go into any discussion or reasoning why Gavin Newsom would want to cooperate with this, seemingly against his own party? What are the downsides of not cooperating? What is his motivation or benefits for capitulating? Edit: Oh, ahhh I see: "Governor Gavin Newsom agreed to upload driver's license data to a national database primarily to comply with the Real ID Act of 2005 and avoid federal t…

States can implement Real ID without sharing the data with the Federal government. The only mandatory part is the standardization. States can (and do) share this data with each other directly. The Federal government can't constructively require States to share the Real ID data with them, only ask politely, as that would go against existing Constitutional case law. Many States have declined to share Real ID data with…

See my comment elsewhere in this post, unfortunately once a state joins it is possible for AAMVA to compel the addition of all license data to the database, if the state wishes to remain Real ID compliant. AAMVA is a private entity that can change requirements without oversight.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#29

Post by iamnothere »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #12
iamnothere wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a strategic move by Newsom to comply with giving your data to a historically unpopular fedgov led by a historically unpopular president at a time when resisting would have been supported by his base and would have raised his political capital (and national profile). Very smart move. (There is only one team in US politics.)

I think many people will assume you're historically unpopular president and fed gov are the current ones. Since the federal law requiring this was passed in 2005, it's another historically and unpopular president and fedgov. (I am of course referring to Abraham Lincoln and the 1861 federal government)

States can choose not to comply, in fact the lack of compliance is why the deadlines keep getting pushed back. CA joining removes a huge roadblock for full implementation given its population.

Re: California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database

#30

Post by wat10000 »

CharlesW wrote: post #27
wat10000 wrote: post #25

We should switch to a national ID system and be done with it. The patchwork we have is getting more ridiculous by the day.

Agreed, this would be a great way to streamline our country's government-controlled digital panopticon.

I don’t get the impression that the current system is really getting in the way of that.
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