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Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

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Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#21
post #8
post #4

There's no paradox here. Distribution of wealth matters. Rich got richer and everyone else didn't. Simple as that.

As Ray Dalio has mentioned, you should measure results on how it impacts the bottom 51% of the people (the majority) it's a lot more illustrative than looking at the average.

The median is usually used for this; it throws away outliers on both sides.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#22

Seems like housing again: > Rents have surged in recent years, driven by tourism, foreign investment and a shortage of affordable housing. The cost of housing now consumes one of the largest shares of disposable income in the European Union My impression is that where housing is expensive, there will be complaints of unaffordability (obviously), but also vice versa, that where there is unaffordability, housing always…

> (at least in "the west").

It is the same in the east - it is either housing, or housing related tax.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#23
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Ray Dalio has mentioned, you should measure results on how it impacts the bottom 51% of the people (the majority) it's a lot more illustrative than looking at the average.

Should we perhaps look at the top 51% instead? Why pick one perspective over the other? I’m not familiar with Dalio outside some weird pseudo-academic paper he wrote where he attempts to provide a new grand theory of economics based on “transactions”, but I would be interested to hear this perspective supported. Edit: samiv above answered my question

Well, if you're looking at the bottom X%, then you can be confident that the rest of the population are in a better position.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#24

Same with Brazil or Portugal or Angola. Full of billionaires with poor people.

Yeah, its all inequality. Most people are going to be renters forever in my hometown and the government has absolutely no plan to fix it. People will just be pushed farther and farther away from where they work and will have longer and longer commutes because it is impossible to pay to live close to work with the salaries they're making.

Renting itself isn't inherently the problem if you have very strong tenant rights. Imagine renting came with all the rights of owning except the money flowed differently (like a perpetual mortgage) - that'd be pretty okay, actually. It is within the power of a government to enable something like that.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#26

Because, to the surprise of literally nobody who's ever been on the receiving end of these sorts of policies they cook up in far away think tank offices and the ivory towers of academia, there's a million ways to make the number go up that doesn't actually make normal people any better off.

At this point, I'd settle for not being better off. It'd be a helluva lot better than everything getting worse.

We need to eat the fucking rich. Bnch of parasitic fuckwads.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#27
post #21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Ray Dalio has mentioned, you should measure results on how it impacts the bottom 51% of the people (the majority) it's a lot more illustrative than looking at the average.

The median is usually used for this; it throws away outliers on both sides.

This is not quite the same as the median: it is possible for the bottom 50% to improve but for the median to stay the same (i.e. imagine if everyone in the bottom 50% suddenly equaled the best of them). But the median is a lot better than the mean for not being distorted by large changes in the top and bottom percentiles.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#28

Seems like housing again: > Rents have surged in recent years, driven by tourism, foreign investment and a shortage of affordable housing. The cost of housing now consumes one of the largest shares of disposable income in the European Union My impression is that where housing is expensive, there will be complaints of unaffordability (obviously), but also vice versa, that where there is unaffordability, housing always…

You are right that it's due to housing but in my opinion most of unaffordability comes from immense pressure due to tourism. Housing situation is better outside the touristy areas (and Athens). If anything Greece has seen massive housebuilding up until the economic crash in the early 10s. I remember block of flats appearing left and right in most major cities in a span of months. They still do but in a lot of cases they are almost exclusively short-term lets (again especially in tourist hubs). Why let a flat for €500 monthly when you can charge €150 per night? It's maddening.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#29
post #13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Ray Dalio has mentioned, you should measure results on how it impacts the bottom 51% of the people (the majority) it's a lot more illustrative than looking at the average.

Yep. I'm not an economist but my social democratic common sense would tell me to look at the bottom 10% income bracket and see how they're doing. Incidentally these people are the best economic citizens because if you give them money they'll spend every cent of it because they need to buy food and energy, use health care and pay rent. In other words if a rich person gets a million they (if they're sane) spend a fract…

Bottom 10% are outliers though. Bottom 50% is much more reasonable.

Re: Greece Is Richer. So Why Do So Many Greeks Still Feel Poor?

#30
post #13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Ray Dalio has mentioned, you should measure results on how it impacts the bottom 51% of the people (the majority) it's a lot more illustrative than looking at the average.

Yep. I'm not an economist but my social democratic common sense would tell me to look at the bottom 10% income bracket and see how they're doing. Incidentally these people are the best economic citizens because if you give them money they'll spend every cent of it because they need to buy food and energy, use health care and pay rent. In other words if a rich person gets a million they (if they're sane) spend a fract…

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