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More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

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Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#21

Post by ceejayoz »

root-parent wrote: post #19
isomorphic_duck wrote: post #15

Tangential, but really looking forward to what Europa Clipper[0] finds in its flybys. The delay in communication makes ambitious manoeuvres challenging - perhaps advances in AI (and by extension robotics) helps build much more autonomous space rovers. This could enable us, for example, to evaluate the samples by sending wet microscopes with the rover itself. [0]: https://science.nasa.gov/mission/europa-clipper/

Too much radiation for anything close to Jupiter. You will find life on Venus clouds and in Titan.... Everybody looking at the wrong targets. Mars is a dead, radiation cooked, burned, poisonous place. Forget about it, leave it to the trillionaires.

> Too much radiation for anything close to Jupiter.

Europa's water is an excellent radiation shield.

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#22

Post by isomorphic_duck »

root-parent wrote: post #19
isomorphic_duck wrote: post #15

Tangential, but really looking forward to what Europa Clipper[0] finds in its flybys. The delay in communication makes ambitious manoeuvres challenging - perhaps advances in AI (and by extension robotics) helps build much more autonomous space rovers. This could enable us, for example, to evaluate the samples by sending wet microscopes with the rover itself. [0]: https://science.nasa.gov/mission/europa-clipper/

Too much radiation for anything close to Jupiter. You will find life on Venus clouds and in Titan.... Everybody looking at the wrong targets. Mars is a dead, radiation cooked, burned, poisonous place. Forget about it, leave it to the trillionaires.

I am not an astrophysicist, but I have read that the thick layer of ice is supposed to protect the miles-deep ocean against radiation, which might harbour life.

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#24

Post by timmg »

isomorphic_duck wrote: post #15

Tangential, but really looking forward to what Europa Clipper[0] finds in its flybys. The delay in communication makes ambitious manoeuvres challenging - perhaps advances in AI (and by extension robotics) helps build much more autonomous space rovers. This could enable us, for example, to evaluate the samples by sending wet microscopes with the rover itself. [0]: https://science.nasa.gov/mission/europa-clipper/

Tangential to your tangential:

The era of AI makes me realize that if we ever get visited by aliens: it will probably not be actual aliens -- just an AI probe. And the idea of it really intrigues me.

Imagine some LLM that is many generations ahead of Fable -- but from a different world -- visiting us. It would be amazing. And it would likely be better at figuring out how to communicate with us (than the human-equivalent might).

We need some new sci fi movies like that!

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#26

Post by mbil »

timmg wrote: post #24
isomorphic_duck wrote: post #15

Tangential, but really looking forward to what Europa Clipper[0] finds in its flybys. The delay in communication makes ambitious manoeuvres challenging - perhaps advances in AI (and by extension robotics) helps build much more autonomous space rovers. This could enable us, for example, to evaluate the samples by sending wet microscopes with the rover itself. [0]: https://science.nasa.gov/mission/europa-clipper/

Tangential to your tangential: The era of AI makes me realize that if we ever get visited by aliens: it will probably not be actual aliens -- just an AI probe. And the idea of it really intrigues me. Imagine some LLM that is many generations ahead of Fable -- but from a different world -- visiting us. It would be amazing. And it would likely be better at figuring out how to communicate with us (than the human-equival…

You might like Blindsight by Peter Watts

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#27

Post by sgt101 »

nkrisc wrote: post #11
sgt101 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the opposite - unless the discovery of life was preceeded or coincidental with the discovery of some other hyper interesting thing (for example, if Martian life has some sort of utility for medicine, maybe) then I think that would be that for Mars exploration missions. Of course there would be many announcements and excited political agreements around "continuing to explore the new frontier" but I think that…

But why? Why would there be no money for that but there’s money now when there’s no conclusive evidence of life, past or present, on Mars? It makes no sense.

Because looking for life on mars sells.

"Why are we not spending that money on more social housing?" : Because this is the greatest mystery of our time... (nods all round)

"Why are we doing science?": I don't know and I don't care, cut my taxes! (Cheering and mocking comments about nerds.)

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#28

Post by nkrisc »

nephihaha wrote: post #17
nkrisc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious why you seem to believe that all exploration of Mars would cease as soon as life is discovered there? It would be one of the biggest scientific discoveries of all time and would open up a huge number of possible future missions, for the next few centuries at least. It would also make for good justification for missions to other worlds that could harbor life.

Scientists can string out things. It is a means of securing funding for long periods. I think there has been evidence of life in the Venusian atmosphere since the 80s and on/in Mars since the 70s.

Weak evidence for life, at best. Which is why exploration continues, to search for stronger evidence. If irrefutable evidence of life were found it would open up many new avenues of exploration and research that would need funding, with strong justification - much stronger justification than currently exists.

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#29

Post by nkrisc »

sgt101 wrote: post #27
nkrisc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? Why would there be no money for that but there’s money now when there’s no conclusive evidence of life, past or present, on Mars? It makes no sense.

Because looking for life on mars sells. "Why are we not spending that money on more social housing?" : Because this is the greatest mystery of our time... (nods all round) "Why are we doing science?": I don't know and I don't care, cut my taxes! (Cheering and mocking comments about nerds.)

If life were found on Mars then the greatest mystery of our time would be whether life originated at least twice independently, or if we share a common origin. Both of which have significant implications, to put it mildly.

Re: More evidence is consistent with possible ancient life on Mars (2025)

#30

Post by lelanthran »

timmg wrote: post #24
isomorphic_duck wrote: post #15

Tangential, but really looking forward to what Europa Clipper[0] finds in its flybys. The delay in communication makes ambitious manoeuvres challenging - perhaps advances in AI (and by extension robotics) helps build much more autonomous space rovers. This could enable us, for example, to evaluate the samples by sending wet microscopes with the rover itself. [0]: https://science.nasa.gov/mission/europa-clipper/

Tangential to your tangential: The era of AI makes me realize that if we ever get visited by aliens: it will probably not be actual aliens -- just an AI probe. And the idea of it really intrigues me. Imagine some LLM that is many generations ahead of Fable -- but from a different world -- visiting us. It would be amazing. And it would likely be better at figuring out how to communicate with us (than the human-equival…

> Imagine some LLM that is many generations ahead of Fable -- but from a different world -- visiting us. It would be amazing.

Why? Why would you expect it to be any more benevolent or any less murderous than the actual aliens visiting? Presumably it would be trained on their values, not ours.

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