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America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

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21–30 of 48 posts

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#21

I bought a home a few years ago. We chose an older 1940's wood home near downtown in a California town. Its solid. Meanwhile, friends of ours have bought newly constructed homes with all the modern features, and the horror stories they have...

It’s tricky. Buy 1970s or earlier and risk asbestos and lead issues (look how late asbestos was still used in a few things! It’s surprisingly late). Buy later than about 1985 and all the good old-growth wood was gone so it all sucks in different ways.

This is true. Luckily my house has gone through a lot of rewiring prior, but yes there are definitely issues to watch out for.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#22
I've owned a range of 21st century construction in Texas. 2023, 2021, 2012 (current), 2009. The one built in 09 is easily the best out of the bunch. I'm currently looking at homes built in the 70s and 80s.

I've learned my lesson about cheap builds with 13 foot ceilings and gigantic rooms. I am over the scale of it all because the acoustics are so goddamned awful you can hardly sleep. Not one of these houses will ever have interior insulation or god forbid actual Rockwool installed anywhere, so the rooms resonate at frequencies that are impossible to mitigate. 13' ceilings have an axial room mode of ~43hz. Good luck mitigating that. Oftentimes the master bedroom has a dimension even larger than this. Your audio system might be tuned to avoid these ranges but traffic noise and the way the hvac system rumbles in your crawl space is much harder to. Pushing into infrasonic is only a viable option when you have an entire stadium at your disposal. This in between realm is awful. The inside of a Walmart feels better acoustically than many of the new homes built around it.

I am looking forward to having 9 foot ceilings and thick-ass brick all the way around again. I'll lose about a thousand sqft of living space and have to deal with all kinds of legacy issues, but at least it's built better.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#23
Almost all new homes in the last 20 years are terrible. Every builder cuts corners. Inspections often can’t see where those savings were made. And insurance or warranties won’t help for many of them. It’s a huge scam and needs legislation.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#24
My experience as a homeowner with relatives in the construction trades is that any tract home / production builder will be equally shoddy. They don't need to be a large publicly traded company like Lennar, DR Horton, or KB Homes to do a terrible job, they just need the wrong incentive structure coupled with no enforcement of quality standards.

Realistically the only way to get a properly built house in the United States is to have a reputable custom home builder do the job, invest heavily in things like engineering up front to minimize geotechnical issues or structural issues that might arise later due to poor homesite choice or architect artistic overreach. That, or buy a well-built home that's already there from before we went fully into production building, which is really just houses made from around 1970 to 1995, before 1970 we were slapping up badly made houses to deal with the postwar boom and after 1995 we went fully into the corporate enshittification hellscape that we currently exist in.

Never, ever, skip an inspection, even on a brand new house, in fact that goes double for a brand new house.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#25
post #2

This is not new. I just watched a video a few days ago talking about Levittown, built in the post-WWII boom, where the house lots were just big enough to build septic systems for each, given the current state of the ground/drainage. So as the soil compacted/absorbed the output of the houses, and as people installed washing machines, and and as people converted their attics to additional bedrooms (which they were orig…

> This is not new. Nothing under the sun is new, but we do currently live in a time with unprecedented levels of open corruption where nobody seems to feel the slightest amount of guilt for clearly immoral behavior as long as they get away with it. And even in cases where what you do is explicitly illegal legal enforcement is largely contingent on whether or not whatever corrupt thing you did made you rich enough to…

> unprecedented levels of open corruption where nobody seems to feel the slightest amount of guilt as long as they get away with it.

Historically speaking, current levels of corruption in most of the world are either low, or completely precedented.

In the US specifically, corruption may be higher the last decade than in the couple of decades precloud, but certainly is not as high as 120 years ago.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#26

I bought a home a few years ago. We chose an older 1940's wood home near downtown in a California town. Its solid. Meanwhile, friends of ours have bought newly constructed homes with all the modern features, and the horror stories they have...

I wonder what exactly about the 1940's home made it solid. I want to build my own home one day, and I don't want it to fall apart the minute the builder's liability expires.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#27

I bought a home a few years ago. We chose an older 1940's wood home near downtown in a California town. Its solid. Meanwhile, friends of ours have bought newly constructed homes with all the modern features, and the horror stories they have...

It’s tricky. Buy 1970s or earlier and risk asbestos and lead issues (look how late asbestos was still used in a few things! It’s surprisingly late). Buy later than about 1985 and all the good old-growth wood was gone so it all sucks in different ways.

Was it actually gone or did the remaining stock get some sort of protection? Like did the entire continent seriously get logged?

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#28
Locally (rural Western Australia) we've faced the same shortage of builders relative to demand that many places have and new builds have increased in number while still falling short of demand.

Traditionally this state near the capital city has had a lot of double brick builds, more so than other parts of the world - due to a combination of the "right" soils and a long standing still expanding massive brick company (Midland Brick).

The greatest growth in "alternative" building has been in the factory built modular home area - not just dumpy dongars and demountable shipping container like homes, but multi part slide together modules that together make up a large "pre built home" - say, four large oversize truck loads each with a complete foundation (thick concrete floor) framed, walled, roofed, plumbed and wired chunk o'house that gets lowered slid and jacked in place, then all parts are pulled into together to make a seamless appearing whole.

It's a day to land, a second day to hook up to septic + water + power and drop verandahs and shading in place attached to the home.

That approach has seen a rapid increase in build time as the chunk parts are all created in large warehouse spaces with overhead crane rigs and racks of supply chain parts allowing multiple home builds to be interwoven in a pipeline that concentrates tradesmen and allows (say) an electrician to pull and plate several partial homes in a day or two.

The build quality (so far, from several I've seen) has been consistently up to code with a significant time and money cost saving to owner over other build methods.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#29
I feel like shoddy construction/craftsmanship isn't limited to new home construction. My wife and I just wrapped up a 6 month renovation of a >100 year old house. I used to work in industrial maintenance, so I knew how to do a lot of stuff already (electric, natural gas lines, drain lines, etc.) We had to farm out a couple of jobs to contractors we didn't have time to do ourselves. With the exception of one guy, they all did horrible work. I actually had to redo some of the work the plumber did. I was so disheartened with the quality that I decided I was going to just do everything myself from now on. I realized even if I read a book about how to do it and watched a few YouTube videos, I could do better.

I really don't think it's a skill issue, because these people knew what they were doing. It just feels like nobody gives a sh*t. If I bend a piece of conduit that's in a visible part of my basement and it's crooked or off, I'll take it down and re-bend it. If I install a piece of base trim and there's a huge gap between pieces, I'll cut a new piece. There's no attention to detail, and I am _willing to pay extra_ for that. Charge me for the extra conduit or base trim.

I've actually entertained the idea of starting my own electrical contractor company and hiring/training ex-software engineers. I feel like we as a profession generally don't like sloppiness and most of us are nitpicky enough (myself included) to produce quality work. I can't be the only one out there that's happy to pay a little extra if they know they're not getting garbage.

Re: America's Large Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers

#30

I feel like shoddy construction/craftsmanship isn't limited to new home construction. My wife and I just wrapped up a 6 month renovation of a >100 year old house. I used to work in industrial maintenance, so I knew how to do a lot of stuff already (electric, natural gas lines, drain lines, etc.) We had to farm out a couple of jobs to contractors we didn't have time to do ourselves. With the exception of one guy, they…

> I feel like we as a profession generally don't like sloppiness

Thanks for that, needed a deep guttural laugh.

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