Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

scienceblogs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#21

Post by rbanffy »

prezjordan wrote: post #10

I wish SmallBASIC (there are two of them! [0] [1]) would catch on (become a household name). Very easy, approachable, and has the same charm as normal BASIC/QBASIC - with regards to the development environment. Perfect for children. [0]: http://smallbasic.com/ (Microsoft SmallBASIC) [1]: http://smallbasic.sourceforge.net/ (SmallBASIC - One more basic)

It's still way beyond 8-bit BASIC. I think the BASIC interpreters that ran on small home computers of the late 70's and early 80's were in a sweet spot between being high-level languages (variable names, strings, arrays) and being close enough to the metal to illustrate things like conditional branching (no multi-line IF's demanded the use of GOTO's for conditional branches).

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#22

Post by mememememememe »

I am old, but I still prefer to teach C++ in the intro course. I learned the hard way and it pays off. "What? I have to do this in C++? I can just import that in Python!" and then they really don't understand how things work under that magic. C/C++ programmers would say "oh that's magic! i like that magic :) "

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#23

Post by volaski »

klrr wrote: post #19

I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.

1. If you think Python is a pain, I don't think there is any other language you can learn. I've learned lots of different languages, but Python was one of the easiest to pick up and get started--not so different from BASIC. 2. Unless things have changed since I last worked with python, your statement "Everything is an object" is not true. Actually this is one thing I like about Python over Ruby (In Ruby, everything actually is an object.) As far as I know, Python has primitives, and therefore not as confusing as ruby for beginners. 3. Here's a problem: "Build a program that fetches content from a web page.". Try building that without using any modules. Maybe even try that with your BASIC if you want. By using modules you just reuse what people have already built, and can solve aforementioned problem with just a couple of lines.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#25

Post by rolleiflex »

darkstalker wrote: post #4

I'd rather take Lua as "The new Basic", since it has a syntax closer to Basic, and it's a simpler language.

I concur. From my limited experience with Lua, I'd say it's a very beginner friendly language, and it's blazing fast in certain conditions. There's also an app called Codea which runs on iPad that allows beginners to code games within. It works suprisingly well, and there are a few games on the app store that are written entirely on iPad in Codea.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#27

Post by int_19h »

volaski wrote: post #23
klrr wrote: post #19

I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.

1. If you think Python is a pain, I don't think there is any other language you can learn. I've learned lots of different languages, but Python was one of the easiest to pick up and get started--not so different from BASIC. 2. Unless things have changed since I last worked with python, your statement "Everything is an object" is not true. Actually this is one thing I like about Python over Ruby (In Ruby, everything a…

Python primitive types are also objects. It's been that way for many years.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#28

Post by ufo »

klrr wrote: post #19

I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.

The way to get around the "everything" is an object thing is to just ignore it. Object Orientation is mostly a convenience at that level of programming and you can do almost everything without even bothering about it.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#29

Post by dangayle »

klrr wrote: post #19

I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.

>why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code.

That simply doesn't make sense. You could make that argument against every single programming language.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#30

Post by ufo »

olaf wrote: post #2

Javascript is.

The problem with Javascript is that you basically can only use it to interact with websites (thus forcing people to also learn HTML and CSS along with it). There is also the problem of it being a language full of warts and implementation incompatibilities and missing lots of features you would want from a modern language.
Post reply on HN