Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

markhorrell.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 64 posts

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#21

Post by TFNA »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #10

One of the things I appreciate about the Andes Mountains is that in this age of social media ruining everything most areas are still pretty wild. You don’t see long queues of people waiting to take selfies. You may not see other people at all. They are second in height to the Himalaya but in most other ways are more interesting. I feel like the governments there low-key try to keep it that way.

The industry that has sway over the Andes is mining. Against that, tourism income is negligible and in fact more tourism could threaten the mining industry.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#22

Post by AlotOfReading »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #10

One of the things I appreciate about the Andes Mountains is that in this age of social media ruining everything most areas are still pretty wild. You don’t see long queues of people waiting to take selfies. You may not see other people at all. They are second in height to the Himalaya but in most other ways are more interesting. I feel like the governments there low-key try to keep it that way.

The higher Himalayas are largely unpeopled as well, especially above 4000m. The only time I met people above those altitudes were at night in camps/settlements. I'm sure the EBC route is more crowded, but that's one very small trek in an enormous mountain range.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#23

Post by samastur »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #10

One of the things I appreciate about the Andes Mountains is that in this age of social media ruining everything most areas are still pretty wild. You don’t see long queues of people waiting to take selfies. You may not see other people at all. They are second in height to the Himalaya but in most other ways are more interesting. I feel like the governments there low-key try to keep it that way.

That's because there so much of them and most of the range is not very comfortably accessible (you usually need to endure some discomfort either getting there or staying nearby).

Where you can get nearby fairly easy like base Las Torres, you'll have plenty of people doing just that.

I don't think this is by intent. It's just that the countries themselves are relatively poor and have higher priority projects for their limited resources.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#24

Post by liversage »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #5

> police arrested them and confiscated 102 bolts That stood out to me... I understand that rock climbing is Serious Business to its practitioners and people on internet forums, but these two guys actually got arrested for removing those bolts, which is a whole new level of serious. Was it really some kind of crime to do that? What happened to those guys after that?

I've heard a variation of the story where the police took them away (i.e., "arrested" them) to protect them from what was becoming an angry mob.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#25

Post by joshcramer »

If you like this story, I highly recommend “The Tower”, a book on this topic by Kelly Cordes. This book, although history, reads like an outdoor adventure mystery thriller.

Check out Kelly’s intro on his blog, where he also shares his famous Marg recipe: https://kellycordes.com/2014/11/26/my-cerro-torre-book-and-m....

I can personally attest, that Kelly makes the best Margs.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#26

Post by kakacik »

rcpt wrote: post #4

Those two guys removed an established easement. Sure one can argue that it should never have been installed in the first place, but it was and apparently it became widely used. They had no business taking it down.

Indeed, they were visitors and were given no permission to alter mountains in such ways. If it should have been done, it should have been done by owners of that terrain - I presume Chile / Argentine.

The arrogance of this... I see no difference between Maestri's act and their. Arrogance of fanatics who think they stand above others, their cause is righteous and so on.

I love mountains, I love climbing to the death, but there is nothing respectable in these actions. Also, if they could climb it without using bolts, it was hardly 'forever erased for future' even though I get that route was probably permanently altered. In same/similar way that tens of thousands of other routes have been altered in similar way by placing permanent stuff in the wall - in all of European Alps, Yosemite, Himalayas and so on. I do find various old to very old equipment in main routes or just climbing crags all over French and Swiss alps for example. At that point its part of mountaineering history. Sometimes, even a specific famous name is assigned to given piece by those who know its story.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#27

Post by hvb2 »

samastur wrote: post #23
jandrewrogers wrote: post #10

One of the things I appreciate about the Andes Mountains is that in this age of social media ruining everything most areas are still pretty wild. You don’t see long queues of people waiting to take selfies. You may not see other people at all. They are second in height to the Himalaya but in most other ways are more interesting. I feel like the governments there low-key try to keep it that way.

That's because there so much of them and most of the range is not very comfortably accessible (you usually need to endure some discomfort either getting there or staying nearby). Where you can get nearby fairly easy like base Las Torres, you'll have plenty of people doing just that. I don't think this is by intent. It's just that the countries themselves are relatively poor and have higher priority projects for their…

> Where you can get nearby fairly easy like base Las Torres, you'll have plenty of people doing just that.

Are you sure it's the accessibility or the fact that Torres del Paine, which is very famous, is next door?

I get what you're saying though, maybe you just picked a bad example

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#28

Post by _vertigo »

rcpt wrote: post #4

Those two guys removed an established easement. Sure one can argue that it should never have been installed in the first place, but it was and apparently it became widely used. They had no business taking it down.

Rock climbing ethics is more complicated and dramatic than that.

Applying this logic about easements doesn’t really capture the whole picture, because you’re considering people only, not considering the mountain. I think some people who support chopping those bolts would argue that this is like restoring the Mona Lisa after some random guy painted their own painting over it. Yes, removing that guy’s crappy painting is technically a destructive act and removes the world’s ability to see that painting. But net-net, things have improved, even though there will always be some signs of the damage done by a fool.

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#29

Post by liversage »

Maestri's claimed first ascent and his compressor route made the history of Cerro Torre controversial, and the later removal of the bolts added to this controversy. However, the unfortunately now deceased climbing prodigy David Lama also had his own scandal on the compressor route while sponsored by Red Bull.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lama#Cerro_Torre

Re: A short history of Cerro Torre, the most controversial mountain (2012)

#30

Post by kakacik »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #10

One of the things I appreciate about the Andes Mountains is that in this age of social media ruining everything most areas are still pretty wild. You don’t see long queues of people waiting to take selfies. You may not see other people at all. They are second in height to the Himalaya but in most other ways are more interesting. I feel like the governments there low-key try to keep it that way.

This ain't true, even in many cca popular places in European alps you can be alone whole day. Just don't go into most popular hotspots on busy holidays days, traveling rule 101.

People just taking selfies and generally big crowds are not climbers/mountaineers, its everybody else but.

Post reply on HN