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macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

phoronix.com

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Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#21

Post by wpm »

amelius wrote: post #19
vsgherzi wrote: post #10

It seems like this is a bug, apple went through the trouble to allow something like asahi to be possible in the first place. I doubt they're purposely trying to break it.

(removed)

If the happy path disappears, the not-so-happy path will be taken to allow for booting custom kernels, one that will likely rely on turning the some or a lot of the RE energy towards breaking the Secure Enclave, the bootloader, and so on. Apple practically laid the red carpet out to avoid people trying to crack the parts of the hardware/software chain-of-trust they would really rather not have cracked. A similar strategy helped keep the Xbox One un-pwned for over a decade (running homebrew was allowed in a specific mode). It is doubtful Apple's legal department isn't aware of the value of the current software strategy.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#22

Post by tstenner »

theshrike79 wrote: post #15
Teever wrote: post #6

I wish the EU would regulate this kind of stuff. A consumer shouldn't be restricted from installing their own OS on a device that they bought, be it a smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop, or server. A company the size of Apple should also be required to release proper documentation that enables the porting of operating systems to these kinds of devices. The reverse engineering work that the Asahi team did is remarkab…

If you believe this, the fight should be against PlayStation and Xbox. They’re 100% commodity hardware and fully locked down from any user freedom. Weirdly everyone focuses on Apple with all their might instead of gaming consoles.

Because gaming consoles are for a very specific purpose (and sold as such – the ruling against Sony for blocking Linux on the PS3 only happened because they advertised Linux compatibility) and Macs are general purpose computers

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#23

Post by kmeisthax »

amelius wrote: post #19
vsgherzi wrote: post #10

It seems like this is a bug, apple went through the trouble to allow something like asahi to be possible in the first place. I doubt they're purposely trying to break it.

(removed)

No, if their lawyers want it gone, Apple will just update the bootloader to reject local signing keys.

The actual problem was that Apple has an undocumented APFS key for if a volume is bootable, which Asahi wasn't setting and Apple wasn't checking, but now they do, so they do.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#24

Post by jjtheblunt »

grigio wrote: post #2

Sadly both main ARM platforms (Apple silicon and Qualcomm) are a mine field for Linux

i run linux on both in arch and fedora versions with zero problems, by using the hypervisor framework of macos and wsl2 (wrapper for hyperv). do you need a more direct than hypervisor access to some hardware?

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#25

Post by GeekyBear »

vsgherzi wrote: post #10

It seems like this is a bug, apple went through the trouble to allow something like asahi to be possible in the first place. I doubt they're purposely trying to break it.

Apple designed a bootloader for Apple Silicon Macs that allows you to run an unsigned OS without degrading security when you boot into MacOS. This wasn't an accident.

Macs have always allowed you to run another OS.

iDevices have always had a locked bootloader.

People shouldn't confuse the two.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#26

Post by duped »

Teever wrote: post #6

I wish the EU would regulate this kind of stuff. A consumer shouldn't be restricted from installing their own OS on a device that they bought, be it a smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop, or server. A company the size of Apple should also be required to release proper documentation that enables the porting of operating systems to these kinds of devices. The reverse engineering work that the Asahi team did is remarkab…

I don't think it's unreasonable for a device manufacturer to tightly couple it to the software they design to run on it.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#27

Post by ux266478 »

grigio wrote: post #2

Sadly both main ARM platforms (Apple silicon and Qualcomm) are a mine field for Linux

Pretty much all ARM platforms are. Even ARM devices designed from the ground up to be Linux devices are full of issues, like the MNT Pocket Reform's lack of HW suspend. The tight interop between vendor and implementation is a huge anti-pattern for software freedom, and the standardization initiatives like ARM SR are nowhere to be seen. It's probably the most problematic part of ARM being the future of personal computing, yet another impending manifestation of enshittification.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#28

Post by someguyiguess »

torben-friis wrote: post #20
rafram wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see the argument when it comes to locked-down mobile devices, but macOS is a general-purpose operating system with no restrictions on software sources that can't be easily disabled. Nearly every program available for Linux (excepting OS-specific stuff like desktop environments) is available for macOS, commercial and free, and there's plenty more that's macOS-only. Asahi is cool, but it's mostly used by enthusia…

>I think that you'd have a hard time convincing regulators that this cause really matters. "A foreign power could potentially deny access to the OS" sounds like a compelling argument.

foreign or domestic

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#29

Post by phire »

GeekyBear wrote: post #25
vsgherzi wrote: post #10

It seems like this is a bug, apple went through the trouble to allow something like asahi to be possible in the first place. I doubt they're purposely trying to break it.

Apple designed a bootloader for Apple Silicon Macs that allows you to run an unsigned OS without degrading security when you boot into MacOS. This wasn't an accident. Macs have always allowed you to run another OS. iDevices have always had a locked bootloader. People shouldn't confuse the two.

And if Apple were going to change their mind and try to block linux, they would intentionally modify the bootloader to remove that functionality, not break the boot picker.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#30

Post by officeplant »

WorldPeas wrote: post #3
grigio wrote: post #2

Sadly both main ARM platforms (Apple silicon and Qualcomm) are a mine field for Linux

what about the ones from CIX like the orangepi or their framework mainboard? (though I agree, I miss UEFI for all its faults)

Those are currently suffering from high power draw because they have to keep the cores awake for memory speeds. Lackluster performance as well, but thats the problem with the majority of the ARM ecosystem ever since apple started crafting SoCs.
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