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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#21

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ceejayoz wrote: post #16
greenavocado wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

Imagine how crazy it is to think "Switzerland out of Schengen" isn't. It's a small, landlocked country, surrounded on all sides by Schengen nations, that until recently delegated air defense to the EU outside of their air force's office hours . https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/feb/19/swis...

Plenty of us remember when Switzerland was not in the Schengen though. This might be good for Americans, who haven't been able to get working visas in Switzerland since EU countries now have priority. But otherwise, I don't see much changing beyond border procedures.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#22

Post by transcriptase »

amunozo wrote: post #8
soco wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initiator party wants to get Switzerland out of Schengen and of the EU bilaterals - which will happen as a consequence if this passes. Like a Brexit, basically. Edit: but the CHexit will work just fine, because of the Swiss exceptionalism.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

Makes far more sense than the “population must increase forever” pyramid scheme the rest of the West is running. Check out Canada for a look at what happens when you try to juice GDP via population growth at the expense of literally everything else.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#23

Post by FabCH »

acivitillo wrote: post #11
amtamt wrote: post #2

This seems a much more rational approach than pure political agenda driven fear mongering campaigns against immigrants.

What is rational about this exactly? They share no borders with the countries most immigrants come from, they are moving the problem to Spain, Italy, Greece.

Vast majority of immigrants to Switzerland come from Spain, Italy, Greece and other EU countries…

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#24

Post by slopinthebag »

amtamt wrote: post #2

This seems a much more rational approach than pure political agenda driven fear mongering campaigns against immigrants.

I agree. Every country has a limit, unspoken or not, let the people decide. Anything less is undemocratic.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#25

Post by SllX »

fractallyte wrote: post #9
jrflo wrote: post #3

So this is essentially a way to reduce immigration to the country? And if they get close to the cap they will "need to take measures, particularly in the areas of asylum and family reunification." Would be curious to learn more about why this is being proposed.

It's being proposed in order to maintain quality of life. No one wants to be overcrowded. This is a sane solution: collectively agree on the maximum tolerable population. Then it's down to individual responsibility to obey the norms of one's society. Edit: unless you're Swiss, your opinion is irrelevant. Swiss voters have a right to decide how they want to live. They're not beholden to EU laws; they can make their ow…

There’s never anything sane with population caps by fiat. If that’s a form of insanity they wish to indulge though, then democracy allows them that.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#26

Post by ceejayoz »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #21
ceejayoz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how crazy it is to think "Switzerland out of Schengen" isn't. It's a small, landlocked country, surrounded on all sides by Schengen nations, that until recently delegated air defense to the EU outside of their air force's office hours . https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/feb/19/swis...

Plenty of us remember when Switzerland was not in the Schengen though. This might be good for Americans, who haven't been able to get working visas in Switzerland since EU countries now have priority. But otherwise, I don't see much changing beyond border procedures.

As with Brexit, leaving is likely to result in a much stricter regime than the status quo from before the establishment of the system.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#27

Post by greenavocado »

ceejayoz wrote: post #16
greenavocado wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

Imagine how crazy it is to think "Switzerland out of Schengen" isn't. It's a small, landlocked country, surrounded on all sides by Schengen nations, that until recently delegated air defense to the EU outside of their air force's office hours . https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/feb/19/swis...

I already pass through Swiss customs when driving in, so it makes virtually no difference to me besides slowing things down at the border potentially.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#28

Post by dnautics »

amunozo wrote: post #8
soco wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initiator party wants to get Switzerland out of Schengen and of the EU bilaterals - which will happen as a consequence if this passes. Like a Brexit, basically. Edit: but the CHexit will work just fine, because of the Swiss exceptionalism.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

how did they ever survive in the pre-EU/schengen/EEC era?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#30

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ceejayoz wrote: post #26
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of us remember when Switzerland was not in the Schengen though. This might be good for Americans, who haven't been able to get working visas in Switzerland since EU countries now have priority. But otherwise, I don't see much changing beyond border procedures.

As with Brexit, leaving is likely to result in a much stricter regime than the status quo from before the establishment of the system.

True, maybe. It is really hard to say. I'm not pro leaving in any sense (beyond being an American who used to work in Switzerland and wouldn't have that chance today because of the Schengen).
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