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Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

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Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#21

Post by smokedetector1 »

moogly wrote: post #16
bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, the Israeli lobby does not equal Jews, but support for Israel is almost universal amongst Jews. It doesn't equal but it's strongly connected.

The staunchest antizionists tend to be Jews. Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too. It behooves everyone to stop equating antizionism with antisemitism, because doing that actually breeds the latter.

> there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists

this is a very important point I will remember as well. there are 10x as many evangelical christians as jews in the US, and they are often zionists. zionism is emphatically not just a jewish movement

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#22

Post by nozzlegear »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #20
nozzlegear wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anybody else think it's interesting how many of Jewish stereotypes have a grain of truth? No, but I'm not an anti-Semite (sorry, "anti-Zionist" is the new term, right?) who gives any kind of a shit about this kind of thing

"antisemitism" is such a weird buzzword. Is it being against speakers of the Semitic lanuage group? Against being against the "Semitic race"? Every quantifiable definition I've managed to find seems to effectively be a synonym for 'Middle Eastern', which is a little ironic. Also interesting reading that 'Semite' apparently stems from a biblical classification of race. Are people really getting worked up against sons…

Trying to claim that "anti-Semitism" is a "weird buzzword" with no quantifiable definition is peak sophistry. The fact that Semite has a broader definition than the way it's used when we say "anti-Semite" is irrelevant; we all know – I know, you know, the dictionary knows – what is meant when someone says "anti-Semitism." Don't waste your time or mine by being a pedantic fuck trying to argue the etymology and applications of the word, this isn't high school debate class.

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#23

Post by smokedetector1 »

bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #17
gloryjulio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind statements are so ridiculous. Should American Koreans be lumped together with DPRK? Should American Chinese be grouped with CCP? The foreign government is not related to your average citizens regardless of the race in principle.

No they shouldn't, because American Koreans are for the most part very anti-DPRK and American Chinese are very anti-CPP. American Jews are very pro-Israel and donate heavily to politicians promoted by the Israeli lobby so it's less of a stretch to suggest that they might be aligned.

American evangelical christians are just as pro Israel if not moreso as a group. But somehow you don’t blame them

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#24

Post by bfkwlfkjf »

moogly wrote: post #16
bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, the Israeli lobby does not equal Jews, but support for Israel is almost universal amongst Jews. It doesn't equal but it's strongly connected.

The staunchest antizionists tend to be Jews. Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too. It behooves everyone to stop equating antizionism with antisemitism, because doing that actually breeds the latter.

> Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too.

All you're saying is that there are more Christians than Jews.

In the context of "you're conflating Jews with Israel" what actually matters if you want to compare with Christians is P(support Israel|Jew) Vs P(support Israel|Christian). Stop being disengenuous.

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#25

Post by bfkwlfkjf »

gloryjulio wrote: post #19
bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they shouldn't, because American Koreans are for the most part very anti-DPRK and American Chinese are very anti-CPP. American Jews are very pro-Israel and donate heavily to politicians promoted by the Israeli lobby so it's less of a stretch to suggest that they might be aligned.

There are tons of Jewish people are against Bibi's government for a long time. These kind of generalizations for average citizens are so dangerous. Today you are racists again Jewish group, tomorrow someone will do the same to other races.

My original point was about whether tne Israeli lobby has an undue influence in the media. I didn't say anything about the Israeli gov.

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#26

Post by kys11 »

nozzlegear wrote: post #22
gaiagraphia wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"antisemitism" is such a weird buzzword. Is it being against speakers of the Semitic lanuage group? Against being against the "Semitic race"? Every quantifiable definition I've managed to find seems to effectively be a synonym for 'Middle Eastern', which is a little ironic. Also interesting reading that 'Semite' apparently stems from a biblical classification of race. Are people really getting worked up against sons…

Trying to claim that "anti-Semitism" is a "weird buzzword" with no quantifiable definition is peak sophistry. The fact that Semite has a broader definition than the way it's used when we say "anti-Semite" is irrelevant; we all know – I know, you know, the dictionary knows – what is meant when someone says "anti-Semitism." Don't waste your time or mine by being a pedantic fuck trying to argue the etymology and applica…

[flagged]

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#27

Post by smokedetector1 »

bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #24
moogly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The staunchest antizionists tend to be Jews. Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too. It behooves everyone to stop equating antizionism with antisemitism, because doing that actually breeds the latter.

> Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too. All you're saying is that there are more Christians than Jews. In the context of "you're conflating Jews with Israel" what actually matters if you want to compare with Christians is P(support Israel|Jew) Vs P(support Israel|Christian). Stop being disengenuous.

Your original statement was “there is a grain of truth that jews control the media/country because of the influence of the israel lobby.” (actually, your statement was even worse than that - that you believe that “many” stereotypes about jews in particular are true, unlike other groups).

The response is “the israel lobby is supported by christian evangelicals, a more numerous group than jews.” This is a clear refutation.

Im not sure what point youre trying to make other than that. Seems like you really want to blame the jews

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#28

Post by [deleted] »

smokedetector1 wrote: post #27
bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too. All you're saying is that there are more Christians than Jews. In the context of "you're conflating Jews with Israel" what actually matters if you want to compare with Christians is P(support Israel|Jew) Vs P(support Israel|Christian). Stop being disengenuous.

Your original statement was “there is a grain of truth that jews control the media/country because of the influence of the israel lobby.” (actually, your statement was even worse than that - that you believe that “many” stereotypes about jews in particular are true, unlike other groups). The response is “the israel lobby is supported by christian evangelicals, a more numerous group than jews.” This is a clear refutat…

[deleted]

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#29

Post by bfkwlfkjf »

smokedetector1 wrote: post #27
bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too. All you're saying is that there are more Christians than Jews. In the context of "you're conflating Jews with Israel" what actually matters if you want to compare with Christians is P(support Israel|Jew) Vs P(support Israel|Christian). Stop being disengenuous.

Your original statement was “there is a grain of truth that jews control the media/country because of the influence of the israel lobby.” (actually, your statement was even worse than that - that you believe that “many” stereotypes about jews in particular are true, unlike other groups). The response is “the israel lobby is supported by christian evangelicals, a more numerous group than jews.” This is a clear refutat…

Again, you're confused.

I'm saying that P(supports Israel | is Jewish) is large, and you're saying no, because P(is Christian evangelical | supports israel) is large (because there's so many more). In fact both might be true and are true, but your statement has no connection to the stereotype.

Re: Congress moves to integrate US and Israeli militaries

#30

Post by throw477488 »

bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #29
smokedetector1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your original statement was “there is a grain of truth that jews control the media/country because of the influence of the israel lobby.” (actually, your statement was even worse than that - that you believe that “many” stereotypes about jews in particular are true, unlike other groups). The response is “the israel lobby is supported by christian evangelicals, a more numerous group than jews.” This is a clear refutat…

Again, you're confused. I'm saying that P(supports Israel | is Jewish) is large, and you're saying no, because P(is Christian evangelical | supports israel) is large (because there's so many more). In fact both might be true and are true, but your statement has no connection to the stereotype.

You probably imagine people will think you are very smart because you can put your racism into formulae.

You actually just come across as a shitty person.

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