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New York passes pied-a-terre tax

cnbc.com

21–30 of 459 posts

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#21
I'm really curious about this. Wont, as a rule, any super-rich 2nd, 3rd, and 4th homes in New York be completely unaffordable for almost everyone? It feels a bit like you're potentially spreading around the super-luxury homes across a wider breadth of the super-rich, but not much else.

Is there a better way to think about this?

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#22
Property tax is the workable wealth tax. There's no such thing as a perfect policy, but in the context of NYC this seems worth trying. I'll be interested to see if it helps create some liquidity in the housing market (the goal), or if it only functions as revenue source.

One wrinkle I haven't heard much discussion of -- cities respond to incentives too. NYC is a global destination for the mega wealthy. If it turns out the uber-rich don't mind paying and this becomes a cash cow for the city, that creates incentives for the city to cater to them and try and get more uber-rich people to have second homes in the city.

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate cannot move. If you are wealthy enough to own a second home worth at least $1M or more, you are likely very wealthy (top 2% of US households by net worth threshold is ~$5.5 million). It is a wealth tax implemented on a real estate asset component of a high net worth human's total portfolio.

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You have described an investment property, not an unoccupied second home exposed to the pied-a-terre tax, if you rent it out (whether mortgaged or free and clear).

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate cannot move. If you are wealthy enough to own a second home worth at least $1M or more, you are likely very wealthy (top 2% of US households by net worth threshold is ~$5.5 million). It is a wealth tax implemented on a real estate asset component of a high net worth human's total portfolio.

It affects wealth, but the owner can also sell the property to someone who'll live in it and then they won't be taxed despite owning expensive property. So it's more targeted than a general wealth tax would be and I think the intent is to free up housing supply a bit.

Or they can move to NY "full time", if I'm understanding correctly, which will likely also improve the city's tax revenue from more of that person's expenses incurring city taxes.

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate cannot move. If you are wealthy enough to own a second home worth at least $1M or more, you are likely very wealthy (top 2% of US households by net worth threshold is ~$5.5 million). It is a wealth tax implemented on a real estate asset component of a high net worth human's total portfolio.

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Read the fine article?

> While the tax seems large, experts say the city’s antiquated assessment and valuation system dramatically undervalues properties, reducing the burden. City valuations can often be 10% or less of the true market value, they said.

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It affects wealth, but the owner can also sell the property to someone who'll live in it and then they won't be taxed despite owning expensive property. So it's more targeted than a general wealth tax would be and I think the intent is to free up housing supply a bit.

I think it is unlikely anyone with a second home at these price levels is going to sell to avoid this (immaterial to them) tax. But certainly, if they do sell to someone who will occupy as primary residence, that's also a win, regardless of the coin flip (heads, wealth tax, tails, more housing for those who actively live in the city). Edit: You start somewhere and keep tightening the policy ratchet as loopholes or ot…

In reality, they will now just create a company in Singapore or Mongolia or another such place, which will then own the second home - while itself being owned by the original owner. Problem solved significantly cheaper than this new tax. In fact, I would not be surprised if they have already done that four months ago, when the law was being discussed.

The ones who will be hit are those who do not have the legal frameworks in place to erect such structures - Joe Homeowner who inherits grandmas city house, both worth slightly above the magic 7 figures.

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate cannot move. If you are wealthy enough to own a second home worth at least $1M or more, you are likely very wealthy (top 2% of US households by net worth threshold is ~$5.5 million). It is a wealth tax implemented on a real estate asset component of a high net worth human's total portfolio.

It affects wealth, but the owner can also sell the property to someone who'll live in it and then they won't be taxed despite owning expensive property. So it's more targeted than a general wealth tax would be and I think the intent is to free up housing supply a bit.

Yeah not really. It generates money for the city to run their programs without raising taxes on residents. Those properties aren't being purchased by anyone who can't already get a home.

I think the revenue is probably overstated in the long run as people will find a way to offload the properties except for a select few who will consider a cost of doing business.

Also a great marketing move by Mamdami in terms of walking his talk.

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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You have described an investment property, not an unoccupied second home exposed to the pied-a-terre tax, if you rent it out (whether mortgaged or free and clear).

What they also have described is a dacha.

Re: New York passes pied-a-terre tax

#30

I think this is in the right direction, but the cut off at $1M is interesting. Why's there an obsession with the $1m cutoff? The dollar has been turned to dust. $1M is not that much money, especially in housing, especially in NYC. Why tax $1m second homes and not second homes generally? Effectively, you're going to tax almost all second homes. So why the arbitrary cutoff? Chicago wanted to add a "millionaire's tax" o…

Read the fine article?

> While the tax seems large, experts say the city’s antiquated assessment and valuation system dramatically undervalues properties, reducing the burden. City valuations can often be 10% or less of the true market value, they said.

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