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Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

politico.com

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Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#21

Post by rayiner »

mindslight wrote: post #18
rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Venezuela was literally the only thing Trump has done that made me sick with a feeling of "this is going to be well received by most people". You didn't think Trump's border policy was going to be well received? That seems... out of touch give how prominent an issue it was in the election. People remain quite positive on Trump's immigration policy; with Iran and inflation being his big weak spots: https://harvardha…

It might not run afoul of yours, but I assume that deploying domestic terrorists to attack American cities impinges upon most people's sense of morality in a way that attacking foreign countries (unfortunately) does not. This puts it in the second category I mentioned.

I was actually surprised about that in the other direction. Police consistently poll in the top 3 most trusted organizations in the country. I would have thought ICE would get the benefit of that sentiment. But in the Harvard-Harris polling above, police are +39 net favorability, while ICE is -6.

The lower polling on ICE is odd because, as a policy issue, deporting all illegal immigrants (not just ones who have committed crimes) is polling at 55-45. What other way do people think there is to deport 20+ million people?

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#22

Post by quantified »

oneneptune wrote: post #12
quantified wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being the next president inheriting this dumpster fire. I always thought Obama was handed a poisoned chalice. This will be insane.

This is presuming the next president isn't supportive of these policies and a continuation of the policy.

I'm thinking that even then, they'll be a bit smarter and realize that this is a lot to handle. Won't be starting from as good of a base.

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#23

Post by d--b »

I feel that there would be a real opportunity to make peace with Cuba at the moment. It’s really weak with its major allies engaged in conflicts.

But I doubt that Trump and the Cuban diaspora in the US just want peace or remove the leaders like they did in Venezuela. They really want to take the whole thing.

Rich Cuban families that were driven out by the revolution want their land back. And Trump probably wants another golf resort and its name on the 51st state.

It’s a shame that the president is not great at making deals.

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#24

Post by pstuart »

ajross wrote: post #19
pstuart wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they expect a repeat of Venezuela, which was a tidy operation for what it was (and something I highly disapprove of). But even though these operations are done in the name of "regime change", it's just about giving Trump the opportunity to cosplay as a warrior and to further distract from the dumpster fire of his administration.

It was a coup, not an "operation". We provided assistance to a domestic takeover. The only Venezuelan forces acting in opposition were the ones who didn't get the orders to stand down in time.

Potato, potato. The administration said words about stuff it did and the reasons for it, and then there's the stuff that happenend for the reasons they happened.

It was about scratching an itch, not "spreading democracy".

Considering the US history of meddling south of the border, it was pretty low key. Fucked up, but low key.

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#25

Post by mindslight »

rayiner wrote: post #21
mindslight wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not run afoul of yours, but I assume that deploying domestic terrorists to attack American cities impinges upon most people's sense of morality in a way that attacking foreign countries (unfortunately) does not. This puts it in the second category I mentioned.

I was actually surprised about that in the other direction. Police consistently poll in the top 3 most trusted organizations in the country. I would have thought ICE would get the benefit of that sentiment. But in the Harvard-Harris polling above, police are +39 net favorability, while ICE is -6. The lower polling on ICE is odd because, as a policy issue, deporting all illegal immigrants (not just ones who have commi…

For starters they mainly don't. The whole reason TV personality leadership is en vogue is because most people don't actually think through the implications of what they're buying into. I sure wish they did!

But also, it's quite straightforward to envision a different ICE carrying out its goal slower, more deliberately, with transparency and legal accountability. There's zero need for them to operate as a masked terror squad that is above the law. For example Renee Good's executioner could be behind bars where criminals belong, while his former coworkers who didn't set up a pretext to execute a woman continue on with their job of deporting illegal immigrants. These things are not inherently in conflict.

(Yes, I am aware the rot in the organization has been brewing well before Trump. But terrible needlessly divisive leadership that aims to maximize cruelty (ie spectacle) has accelerated it, and has made it seem like these things are in conflict)

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#26

Post by pstuart »

mindslight wrote: post #18
rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Venezuela was literally the only thing Trump has done that made me sick with a feeling of "this is going to be well received by most people". You didn't think Trump's border policy was going to be well received? That seems... out of touch give how prominent an issue it was in the election. People remain quite positive on Trump's immigration policy; with Iran and inflation being his big weak spots: https://harvardha…

It might not run afoul of yours, but I assume that deploying domestic terrorists to attack American cities impinges upon most people's sense of morality in a way that attacking foreign countries (unfortunately) does not. This puts it in the second category I mentioned.

After the killings in Minnesota I tried reaching out to a MAGA acquaintance I've tried to engage with to find any sort of common ground (so far without any success). I was ignored, and I'm assuming that he's been taught that those were domestic terrorists and got what they deserved.

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#27

Post by Rekindle8090 »

mindslight wrote: post #18
rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Venezuela was literally the only thing Trump has done that made me sick with a feeling of "this is going to be well received by most people". You didn't think Trump's border policy was going to be well received? That seems... out of touch give how prominent an issue it was in the election. People remain quite positive on Trump's immigration policy; with Iran and inflation being his big weak spots: https://harvardha…

It might not run afoul of yours, but I assume that deploying domestic terrorists to attack American cities impinges upon most people's sense of morality in a way that attacking foreign countries (unfortunately) does not. This puts it in the second category I mentioned.

[dead]

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#29

Post by nirui »

mindslight wrote: post #3

Let's try some 4-D chess. What is the overall plan here? Open up multiple wars-of-choice to settle decades old vendettas held by aging boomers, deplete the United States' stockpile of weapons, close up the suitcase operation when the People finally get wise to the treachery, and then abscond to China where they already call Trump the "Nation Builder" ? Meanwhile Big Tech is hoping their panopticon and AI drones will…

> and then abscond to China

I'm a Chinese, from what I learned, you probably don't see the situation clearly.

The problem is influence. America wants to solve the Cuba (and Iran) problem since very long ago, and right now, while China is busy patching up their economic slop/mismanagement and Russia is trapped in Ukraine, is simply the best time to do so.

With Cuba is cleared out, the Americas continent will be cleared of major (and loud) threats against America. That alone is beneficial.

It's the same but opposite reason why America is supporting Japan, Taiwan and Europe etc, to control the influence of their competitors like China, Russia, India, Brazil etc (a.k.a Global South). It also allow Americans to keep a tap on Japan, Taiwan and Europe (etc) so they remains in American control.

That's probably the 4-D chess you talked about.

Also, the "Trump the 'Nation Builder'" part: In China, "Nation Builder" was a popular forename, it means "someone who contributes to their own country/nation". In the Trump context, it means that Trump's policies is benefiting China's goal. That is, when compare to Biden's policy which is much sophisticated and on point (while Trump's is blunt and wasteful).

But I don't think American's soft gesture towards China will last after Cuba and Iran is dealt with (if) in a American victory though. Unlike what the "New World Order" conspiracy suggests, I don't think this world is stupid enough to not to pursue the maximums goal when possible. That's probably why Americans are working towards the maximums goal inches by inches.

Re: Pentagon puts building blocks in place for Cuba invasion

#30

Post by ajross »

pstuart wrote: post #24
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a coup, not an "operation". We provided assistance to a domestic takeover. The only Venezuelan forces acting in opposition were the ones who didn't get the orders to stand down in time.

Potato, potato. The administration said words about stuff it did and the reasons for it, and then there's the stuff that happenend for the reasons they happened. It was about scratching an itch, not "spreading democracy". Considering the US history of meddling south of the border, it was pretty low key. Fucked up, but low key.

The administration 100% did not say what happened, not correctly. The position of the Trump administration is that the US invaded and conquered the country and now runs it and is extracting its resources for our profit. None of that is remotely true. It's run by the same bureaucracy with a junta at the head of it that happens to be aligned with Trump geopolitically.
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