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Why the smart home bubble popped

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Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#21

Post by monocasa »

NoPicklez wrote: post #14
anonymousiam wrote: post #9

Perhaps it popped because of devices from Google, Amazon, Apple, Sonos, etc. that surveil everything you say in their presence. My houses are fairly automated, but I have excluded any device with a microphone.

Not my Sonos setup doesn't, have had it for close to a decade now. Would replace it with brand new Sonos gear if I could. Also, wouldn't be hard to put in a solution to block that type of traffic over the mic.

Sonos updated its policies a.coupme years back to allow selling customer data.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/1desj5c/sonos_update...

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#22

Post by vunuxodo »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #18

The reason really is the extreme arrogance of every single manufacturer that wants you to install their app and use their ecosystem. That might have worked if one of them became super dominant and pushed everyone else out. But because that didn't happen, now I have to install 20 apps for 20 different manufacturers with no guarantees of interoperability. Instead of that I'm choosing to vote with my wallet and mostly s…

Plus, their apps insist on advertising their other crap to you at every opportunity.

Stop pestering me because you think I haven't given you enough money yet. Go away.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#23

Post by DoctorOetker »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #15

The smartest thing is having a light switch you walk over to. Doesn’t fail randomly, doesn’t need an internet connection to operate, doesn’t stop working when your internet is down. My garage remote is in a PIN number lock box next to the garage. Open lock box, press remote, close lock box. That’s smart.

PIN number lock boxes are pretty unsafe, one could consider 2 simple solutions to stop someone trivially determining your PIN:

1) after closing the box, randomize the digits: humans are pretty bad at randomization, imagine modeling the randomization delta it won't be perfectly uniform, and the different discs would display similar distributions of rotation. Suppose spinning a disc to randomize it, one might have a peak at delta=+3 and sidelobes with lower frequency. Just a handful of observations when the codes were randomized will reveal the relative positions of the true code, and the only missing information is 10 possible global rotations, which is easy to brute force

2) A second approach is to not let an attacker learn anything by always presenting them with the same information: instead of randomizing, always reset to the same value (0000 or 9999 or any other value of choice). But in this case another attack becomes extremely easy: acoustically detecting the number of indentation clicks used per wheel by recording: without access to actuation direction that gives 1 bit of direction doubt per wheel or only 2^4 = 16 combinations left, easy to brute force.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#25

Post by bandrami »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #23
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #15

The smartest thing is having a light switch you walk over to. Doesn’t fail randomly, doesn’t need an internet connection to operate, doesn’t stop working when your internet is down. My garage remote is in a PIN number lock box next to the garage. Open lock box, press remote, close lock box. That’s smart.

PIN number lock boxes are pretty unsafe, one could consider 2 simple solutions to stop someone trivially determining your PIN: 1) after closing the box, randomize the digits: humans are pretty bad at randomization, imagine modeling the randomization delta it won't be perfectly uniform, and the different discs would display similar distributions of rotation. Suppose spinning a disc to randomize it, one might have a pe…

I mean, they could also just saw open the box or rip it off whatever mounting brackets it's on. At some point you have to acknowledge you're making unauthorized access inconvenient rather than impossible.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#26

Post by Retric »

TylerE wrote: post #17
rebuilder wrote: post #16

I think it’s also just that there’s not that much it makes sense to automate in the home. I run Home Assistant, and I do not have much of the typical home stuff on it. Why would I want to automate lights? My cat feeder has a timer already. I’m not about to get a smart lock and can’t imagine why I would want to automate one. The useful things I do use it for are: -heating control to take advantage of cheaper electric…

> Why would I want to automate lights? Wait until you're disabled and there are days you can't get out of bed. Having your bedroom lights fade in at low brightness a few minutes before your alarm goes off is also really nice. If you live in an area that's not great time wise there are also a lot of arguments to be made for making it look like your home is occupied when you're away.

An alarm with a built in light does that slowly getting brighter thing just fine.

These days a smart home doing that slowly getting brighter thing regularly fails.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#27

Post by BLKNSLVR »

vunuxodo wrote: post #22
quadrifoliate wrote: post #18

The reason really is the extreme arrogance of every single manufacturer that wants you to install their app and use their ecosystem. That might have worked if one of them became super dominant and pushed everyone else out. But because that didn't happen, now I have to install 20 apps for 20 different manufacturers with no guarantees of interoperability. Instead of that I'm choosing to vote with my wallet and mostly s…

Plus, their apps insist on advertising their other crap to you at every opportunity. Stop pestering me because you think I haven't given you enough money yet. Go away.

It also wants all three of wifi, Bluetooth, and location on, otherwise it provides a reminder that you have them switched off - even though it works just with wifi on.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#28

Post by biotinker »

rebuilder wrote: post #16

I think it’s also just that there’s not that much it makes sense to automate in the home. I run Home Assistant, and I do not have much of the typical home stuff on it. Why would I want to automate lights? My cat feeder has a timer already. I’m not about to get a smart lock and can’t imagine why I would want to automate one. The useful things I do use it for are: -heating control to take advantage of cheaper electric…

There are some really nice things that home automation enables that was previously impossible.

I live in Bend, Oregon. We have hot summer days, cool nights, and sometimes really bad wildfire smoke.

I can save a lot of money on AC if I open the windows at night and use the attic fan to pull in outside air. But if smoke rolls in, then we'd all be breathing 200+ AQI air all night.

I have outdoor AQI sensors, which if the AQI spikes, will close up the house and turn on the air purifiers.

> Why would I want to automate lights?

We're bad at remembering to turn lights on and off. We like having our porch light on an hour or two after sunset, but don't need to leave it on 24/7. We also have stairwell baseboard lighting that's completely unnecessary during the day, but very nice to have already be on if we get up in the middle of the night. To each their own, though. These are just nice to have. The AQI automation is an actual health benefit to us though.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#30

Post by chihuahua »

TylerE wrote: post #17
rebuilder wrote: post #16

I think it’s also just that there’s not that much it makes sense to automate in the home. I run Home Assistant, and I do not have much of the typical home stuff on it. Why would I want to automate lights? My cat feeder has a timer already. I’m not about to get a smart lock and can’t imagine why I would want to automate one. The useful things I do use it for are: -heating control to take advantage of cheaper electric…

> Why would I want to automate lights? Wait until you're disabled and there are days you can't get out of bed. Having your bedroom lights fade in at low brightness a few minutes before your alarm goes off is also really nice. If you live in an area that's not great time wise there are also a lot of arguments to be made for making it look like your home is occupied when you're away.

I have some lights on mechanical timers so the living room has a minimal amount of light in the evening, and they turn off automatically at midnight. That's useful to me, and it was cheap and simple. Haven't had to touch it in 10 years, except to adjust the timers to the seasons. The mechanical timers (Ikea) predate Alexa, and it's cheaper to just keep using them.

I also have a porch light that used to have a light sensor, but those sensors keep failing after a few years, and it's a hassle. Instead, Alexa has a schedule for that porch light switch, and you can specify "turn on at sunset" and "turn off at sunrise", and it's perfect.

And I have an Alexa rule for turning off the other lights that it controls (living room, dining room, family room, hallways, but not the porch light) at midnight. Simple and useful in case I forget to turn the lights off.

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