Live data from Hacker News

Building Pi with Pi

lucumr.pocoo.org

21–30 of 155 posts

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#22

My feeling is that building agent with agent will be the first stable & mature software development pattern emerging. I reached that in several forward-looking induction: 1. If agent is continuing the path to trivialize software development, which appears the case given LLMs can generate better quality code than humans almost for free & instantly given the right context, then using agent to develop software is going…

> Engineering-wise building agents with agent essentially is a different skill patterns than building software with agents

Why would that be different?

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#23
post #10

> To me, clanker is a much preferable term for agent. Agency lies with humans, not with machines We give machines agency all the time. Look up the definition of agency in any dictionary. Other than the specific usages ("a business", "a government organization"), the main definitions are "action, power, operation", "the office or function of an agent", "the capacity, condition, or state of acting or of exerting power"…

I've chosen to define "agency" as pretty much "the thing that humans can do and agents can't". To me, agency is the thing where you independently decide what it is you want to get done in the world, based on your own inherent goals. Being able to say "the one thing agents don't have is agency" is a really useful way to help people understand why people still matter. Setting software agents loose on the world to make…

> agency is the thing where you independently decide what it is you want to get done in the world, based on your own inherent goals

If a company you work for tells you to do something, and you do it, did you have agency? Was it their goal you were accomplishing? Or was it your goal to make money?

> "the one thing agents don't have is agency" is a really useful way to help people understand why people still matter

Do you think people wouldn't matter anymore if they cease to write code? People didn't used to write code. Code didn't even exist before. Now they don't have to do the thing they didn't used to have to do.

> Setting software agents loose on the world to make their own top-level decisions about what they're going to do is a great way to infuriate

I remember the first time I encountered a trojan horse virus. I was probably 14, sitting in the computer lab. I opened a document, and a program started going to town on the documents, program settings, etc. It opened up browsers to sites we weren't supposed to go to, uploaded passwords to a remote site, changed the desktop background. I thought it was pretty cool!

I wondered how it was that the program could do all these things. I wondered about the motivations of the person who infected the document with the trojan. I wondered why the school administrators didn't do something to prevent this from happening. But I didn't feel any negative feeling towards the trojan; it was just doing what it was programmed to do, on computers that let it do those things.

Later I patched the computers so the trojans couldn't infect the machines anymore. I was banned from the computer lab for unauthorized modifications to school property. Apparently agency is not always worth exercising.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#24

[flagged]

Honestly, that's a weird reaction. I don't follow modern programmer slang but even I caught onto "clanker" as meaning "old clanky robot/automaton thing". It has absolutely no relations to negative verbiage about different kinds of people.

I hate to say "check yourself", but this time maybe. Maybe with a lot of ...

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#25
If you are worried about agents diverging from user intent why not log user messages in a file, and make it a point to review this file against plans and executed work? In my own harness nothing the user types gets lost. It might be the most valuable piece of documentation in the project - the raw message log. I am only keeping user side, which is pretty thin, it's enough to figure out what happened. Logging messages to a file is just a matter of adding a user message submit hook, it costs nothing until used.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#26
post #21

[flagged]

How does clanker relate to the "n-word", and what's "all that accompanying history"?

As I understand it, "clanker" was a term created in star wars for people to refer to droids in a deliberately derogatory way. It is quite literally a racial slur created in a fictional universe, which people are now using against AI programs. Even I don't like it, and I'm pretty heavily anti-LLM

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#27

[flagged]

Author here. This visceral reaction to the term fascinates me. You’re not the only person here that mentioned it and it makes me wonder where that is coming from.

We’re naming a machine here, not a human being. Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one) it would be directed at a piece of equipment.

I find it fascinating because I don’t think people would bat an eye if that term was used for a hammer or keyboard. Yet somehow it changes when applied to an LLM based machinery. Craftspeople often apply jargon to their tools, much of which is neutral to negative.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#30

[flagged]

Author here. This visceral reaction to the term fascinates me. You’re not the only person here that mentioned it and it makes me wonder where that is coming from. We’re naming a machine here, not a human being. Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one) it would be directed at a piece of equipment. I find it fascinating because I don’t think people would bat an eye if that term was used for a hammer or keyboard.…

> piece of equipment

You are certain about things that experts in philosophy/consciousness/AI can't agree on.

That should make you pause, not plow ahead.

Post reply on HN