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Why We've Filed a Referendum

stopstratos.org

21–30 of 51 posts

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#21
post #2

Obviously, it's fine to be wary of any development in your area. But it seems like there is a certain amount of irrational(?) fear of datacenters. And I really don't understand it. I saw a poll recently that people would rather live near a nuclear power plan than a datacenter. That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me. I have heard several "concern stories" about them on NPR recently. Maybe th…

> I saw a poll recently that people would rather live near a nuclear power plan than a datacenter. That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me.

Data centers come with gas-fired plants that pollute the air and reduce your life span. It’s quite rational to not want to live next to one of these: https://www.wired.com/story/a-new-google-funded-data-center-...

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#22
post #2

Obviously, it's fine to be wary of any development in your area. But it seems like there is a certain amount of irrational(?) fear of datacenters. And I really don't understand it. I saw a poll recently that people would rather live near a nuclear power plan than a datacenter. That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me. I have heard several "concern stories" about them on NPR recently. Maybe th…

Aside from "moral outrage" style concerns ("AI is bad for the environment", power consumption, water consumption, or "datacenters benefit rich people, rich people bad, so datacenters bad"), I've heard of specific bad examples how datacenters (allegedly) negatively impacted the surrounding population:

- Noise (from fans to generators to possible infrasound concerns)

- Air pollution (from data centers semi-permanently running on generators)

- Electricity prices (although I don't understand how this is supposed to work)

- Water consumption affecting the population (water restrictions, price increases, water table dropping)

Many of these are one-sided stories told from the perspective of the residents that I didn't try to verify, but I suspect some of these concerns are legit.

The company building the datacenter has a lot of incentives to cut corners and/or cause some of these impacts, externalizing its costs (e.g. by saving money at the expense of noise emissions, running the DC on unpermitted gas turbines to be able to build a DC where there isn't enough grid, negotiating clever deals that benefit the company but screw over the utility forcing it to raise prices for others, using groundwater for evaporative cooling to make cooling cheaper, etc.)

The company building the datacenter also likely has a lot more experience while the people of the town and the town itself are doing this once, so there is an inbalance in experience that makes it easy for the company to get away with some of these.

There is very little benefit that the people of the area can expect from a data center - as I understand it, there are very few jobs in one past the construction phase, even the construction jobs are often filled with experienced travelling workers, and given the negotiation imbalance, a town seems likely to get screwed on any contributions that the data center promises.

Maybe the solution would be some kind of framework/organization that guarantees (ideally with binding, well tested contracts) that the datacenter won't be a nuisance, builds a reputation for being reliable, and in exchange, companies that work under that framework can expect quick approvals and less pushback.

Until that exists, or companies start offering guarantees up front (e.g. guaranteeing a certain power price or noise level), I'm not surprised that people push back (especially if the company building the data center has screwed up in the past).

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#23
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch these https://youtu.be/_bP80DEAbuo?si=4XpIb0vb8YjY1g_k https://youtu.be/t-8TDOFqkQA?si=EB8zAF0JYHvOB23a https://youtu.be/3VJT2JeDCyw?si=ak7haiWzbX9O8BL9 Then, tell me if you want to live anywhere near those. Then, tell me of a nuclear power plant that has that bad a repo.

Have you read the responses to (at least) the first of these videos? https://blog.andymasley.com/p/contra-benn-jordan-data-center... Also, I thought the response by Benn Jordan on Bluesky was informative. https://blog.andymasley.com/p/contra-benn-jordan-data-center...

I read the first link and it said:

> When low-frequency sound becomes strong enough to be heard or otherwise felt, it can cause annoyance, discomfort, and sleep disruption like any other normal noise pollution.

So which is it? Sure, I don’t really believe that there is magical super special harmful noise from a datacenter, but are these monster datacenters emitting disruptive amounts of low frequency sound or are they not?

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#25
post #7
post #2

Obviously, it's fine to be wary of any development in your area. But it seems like there is a certain amount of irrational(?) fear of datacenters. And I really don't understand it. I saw a poll recently that people would rather live near a nuclear power plan than a datacenter. That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me. I have heard several "concern stories" about them on NPR recently. Maybe th…

> That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me. Wouldn't the question be more simply, Do you want your power bills to go up for the same power used? And the nuclear accidents that have happend have mostly been overblown (apart from Chernobyl).

Thanks to information campaigns people who live near nuclear facilities tend to have an above average, positive, view of the safety and threat.

A large part of my extended family lives near a large facility. Wind turbines launching ice at the nearby roads is a larger (yet trivial), safety concern.

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#27
post #18
post #2

Obviously, it's fine to be wary of any development in your area. But it seems like there is a certain amount of irrational(?) fear of datacenters. And I really don't understand it. I saw a poll recently that people would rather live near a nuclear power plan than a datacenter. That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me. I have heard several "concern stories" about them on NPR recently. Maybe th…

In a town near me a paper plant recently closed (to much anger), then people protested the potential use of the land for a data center, citing concerns about noise, water use, power use, and traffic.

I have childhood memories of visiting my grandparents, who lived near a town with a paper mill. Going to town, going to a restaurant etc, meant being inundated with the horrible smell produced by that mill, within a radius of miles. It was a fact of life there. Genuinely hard to imagine a data center producing worse waste products than that.

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#28

Utah hasn’t voted for a Democrat president since Johnson. Reap what you sow.

Utah is such a special, creepy little standout enclave among the states. I've worked with a few Mormon coworkers who are genuinely wonderful people whom I adore, but they are, as a group, militant in a way that's hard to describe.

Re: Why We've Filed a Referendum

#30
post #2

Obviously, it's fine to be wary of any development in your area. But it seems like there is a certain amount of irrational(?) fear of datacenters. And I really don't understand it. I saw a poll recently that people would rather live near a nuclear power plan than a datacenter. That's... their choice, of course, but doesn't seem logical to me. I have heard several "concern stories" about them on NPR recently. Maybe th…

I think it's as simple as people generally believe that electricity is good for the world, and AI is bad for it. In the former case you're kindof taking-one-for-the-team. Even places that have nasty nasty stuff like tailings ponds generally have a kind of civic pride that coal mining or whatever was a necessity and the sacrifice of their local environment made a lot of other people's comfy lives possible. Data-centers are just not going to inspire that sentiment lol.
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