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Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

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Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#21

Post by fxwin »

iamacyborg wrote: post #15
le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

Running shouldn’t hurt or harm your knees, in fact it’s more likely to be beneficial. You might find stability shoes to be beneficial until you’ve built up the right muscles, high stack shoes can be quite unstable.

Of course it is beneficial in the long run, but beginners are still prone to overtraining and getting injured when they go from sitting a desk for 14 hours a day to running 3 times a week

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#22

Post by cspeterson »

criddell wrote: post #10
ThoAppelsin wrote: post #7

As a year-round flip-flopper for many years now, those clips of shoes rocking sideways under pressure are nerve wracking to look at. Most (all?) shoes are terrible ankle hazards. Never have I twisted my ankles with flip-flops.

Considering this article is about running shoes, I have to ask - you run in flip-flops?

I think flip flops would perhaps be a mistake, but very close: huaraches, or strappy running sandals, are demonstrably applicable to distance running.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#23

Post by danielbln »

le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

There are two schools of thought here, but I personally subscribe to the notion that thick squishy soles are an anti-pattern. Your foot/calves/leg are an amazing spring, you don't need a layer of foam to shield you from the impact of the ground (and one can argue that at 2-3x body weight during impact, a bit of foam/rubber won't really shield you from anything), on the contrary these thick soles prevent you from feeling the ground and mess up the proprioception, which in turn messes with the spring mechanism of your legs. The fact that your knees hurt are a strong sign that something isn't right. No impact forces should ever end up in the knees, they should be guided up the posterior chain into your glutes. Muscles are great shock absorbers, joints are terrible terrible shock absorbers.

My recommendation would be to try some zero drop shoes for a while.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#24

Post by danielbln »

fxwin wrote: post #21
iamacyborg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running shouldn’t hurt or harm your knees, in fact it’s more likely to be beneficial. You might find stability shoes to be beneficial until you’ve built up the right muscles, high stack shoes can be quite unstable.

Of course it is beneficial in the long run, but beginners are still prone to overtraining and getting injured when they go from sitting a desk for 14 hours a day to running 3 times a week

Your knees should never hurt, overtraining or not.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#25

Post by askvictor »

le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

Have a read of "born to run"

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#26

Post by vintermann »

iamacyborg wrote: post #19
PowerElectronix wrote: post #11

Disclaimer:I run in minimalistic shoes, so of course I'm a hater of this stuff. I find the current trend of springloaded shoes that incentivice people to have a terrible running gait absolutely disgusting. If it weren't for commercial interests I bet these shoes would have been banned long ago. They are bad for the runners and they are bad for the sport.

They’re very good for the sport though? Modern shoes allow runners to train more, which is one of the primary reasons we’ve seen world records get absolutely slammed since they were introduced. Just look at how may people can consistently run 100+ mile weeks with modern shoes vs before.

Is that good in itself though? Imagine if it was allowed to compete with full blown jumping stilts.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#27

Post by iamacyborg »

danielbln wrote: post #24
fxwin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is beneficial in the long run, but beginners are still prone to overtraining and getting injured when they go from sitting a desk for 14 hours a day to running 3 times a week

Your knees should never hurt, overtraining or not.

I wouldn’t say “never”. Stuff like ITBS presents as knee pain when the actual problem area is typically weakness in the hip, for example.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#28

Post by askvictor »

iamacyborg wrote: post #17
vee-kay wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong though. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5G93ta66xSk The tribals from the Sierra Madre Mountains in Northern Mexico - called the Tarahumara or the Rarámuri people - are considered to be among the best endurance runners in the world. Some of the First Nation tribes of the Americas (especially their messengere who ran hundreds of miles to deliver messages) and the traditional African tribals (such as the Ma…

You’re peddling mostly nonsense. Modern shoes don’t force you to heel strike.

True, but they do make it a lot easier. But the heel strike itself isn't the problem, it's the over striding that modern shoes also encourage

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#29

Post by LeifCarrotson »

iamacyborg wrote: post #5

Great read, that site is also super useful for fairly objective shoe reviews and breakdowns in a world full of influencers trying to peddle you shit they don’t understand

RunRepeat is THE place to go for actual measurements and objective data about running shoes.

I'm currently recovering from blisters due to racing a 25k two weeks after my debut marathon in Vaporfly 3 shoes. Poor planning, but it wasn't the shoe's fault: My form fell apart in the marathon after about 23 miles, cramping up and running out of strength and mobility to maintain a midfoot strike.

But I've done my own testing - tempo runs holding a target heart rate in each of my Nike Pegasus trainers, Zegma 2 trainers, and the Vaporflys.

It's not even close.

At 165-170 bpm, I can hold about 7:15/mile for 40 minutes in the Pegasus trainers. On the same route, same weather, same sleep, same heart rate, just a week later, I was able to do 6:40/mile for 40 minutes.

I'm sure a good deal of that comes from weight - I've also got some spike flats for interval training that are really fast but have ordinary EVA foam with low drop and a very low stack, but I wouldn't attempt a marathon in them.

My younger brother was an All-American swimmer in the era of supersuits (2007-2009). I hope that the same doesn't happen to supershoes.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#30

Post by penetrarthur »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #11

Disclaimer:I run in minimalistic shoes, so of course I'm a hater of this stuff. I find the current trend of springloaded shoes that incentivice people to have a terrible running gait absolutely disgusting. If it weren't for commercial interests I bet these shoes would have been banned long ago. They are bad for the runners and they are bad for the sport.

yeah, it is great that you've read a book or two, but why is it that every single elite athlete runs and trains in modern "springloaded" shoes?
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