Live data from Hacker News

I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

frederickvanbrabant.com

21–30 of 490 posts

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#21
This is all substantially correct and gives us hints as to where to focus for AI to make the processes go faster.

Eg: I had a product manager say to me that he envisions a future where any meeting with stakeholders that does not result in an interactive prototype by the end of the meeting would be considered a failure. This feels directionally correct to me.

The other thing I expect to see is Vibecoding being the "Excel 2.0" where it allows significant self-serve of building interactive apps that's engaged in a continual war with IT to turn them into something with better security guarantees, proper access control & logging, scalability, change management etc.

But the larger historical point here is that every revolutionary transition produces, in the early stages, "Steam Horses". The invention of the steam engine had people imagining that the future of transportation would involve horse shaped objects, powered by steam, pulling along conventional carts. It wasn't until later developments that we understood the function of transportation as divorced from the form.

I started talking about Steam Horses originally in the context of MOOCs, which was a classic Steam Horse idea.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#22

I think when LLMs first came out people thought they could just say something like, "Make a Facebook clone". But now we're realizing we need to be more exact with our requirements and define things better. That has always been the bottle neck in software. When I was working we used to get requirements that literally said things like, "Get data and give it to the user". No definition of what data is, where its stored,…

> When I was working we used to get requirements that literally said things like, "Get data and give it to the user". No definition of what data is, where its stored, or in what format to return it. We would then spend a significant amount of time with the product person trying to figure out what they really wanted.

This is a big HN LLM discussion divide. I am in the same no-specs work background camp, and so the idea that the humans who input that into dev teams are suddenly going to get anything out of an LLM if they directly input the same is laughable. In my career most orgs there has been no product person and we just talked directly to end users.

For that kind of org, it will accelerate some parts of the SWEs job at different multipliers, but all the non-dev work to get there with discussions, discovery, iteration, rework, etc remains.

If the input to your work is a 20 page specification document to accompany multi-paragraph Jira tickets with embedded acceptance criteria / test cases / etc, then yes there is a danger the person creating that input just feed it into an LLM.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#23
Some organizations added a ton of process around software development because it is expensive and risky. They require a ton of approvals and sign-offs, then some managing overhead on top to check if their investment is on the right track. This approval process is bound to change by the fact that development is far cheaper and faster now.

Another aspect that is not captured here is that the lawyers and subject matter experts will also be using AI to speed up their parts.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#24

> Every software developer knows that you can’t make projects go faster just by typing faster. If that were the case we would all be taking typing lessons. So well said. AI is unveiling how the bureaucracy is the slow part.

> AI is unveiling how the bureaucracy is the slow part. Computing has been doing that for decades. If your process is fucked, computers make it fucked faster. It’s just that now, we have entire generations alive that have never seem a world without digital computers. ~LLMs~ AI is a fun new lever in some uses so clearly it is finally the hammer that will drive the screws and bolts for us, with less effort on our part!…

Completely agree. It amazes me how some folks think AI is unlike any other technology revolution. History repeats.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#25

Instead of mandatory AI workshops simply cancel all meetings with more than 3 people and no written agenda. Instead block the meeting time for productive work. That’ll be 2000$ of advisory fees for the insane productivity gains I just unlocked you. You’re welcome

If people got paid for telling the truth you’d be rich.

Yes, there are MANY in tech/non-tech management that will quietly admit that a lot of this top-down stuff is to create the appearance of motion to appease a higher more tech/AI ignorant authority.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#26
I actually have data on this. I’ve been building sharc, a Common Lisp port of Hacker News. https://www.github.com/shawwn/sharc

If that sounds familiar, it’s because it’s what dang did over the course of several years.

It’s taken a few weeks. I started right around May, and now it’s able to render large HN threads (900+ comments) within a factor of five of production HN performance. (Thank you to dang for giving actual performance numbers to compare against.)

A couple days ago, mostly out of curiosity, I ran Claude with “/goal make this as fast as HN.” Somewhat surprisingly, it got the job done within a couple hours. I kept the experiment on separate branches, because the code is a mess, just like all AI generated code starts as. But the remarkable part is that it worked, and I can technically claim to have recreated HN within a few weeks.

The real work is in the specifications. My port of HN is missing around a hundred features. Things from favorited comments, to hiding threads, to being able to unvote and re-vote.

But catching up to HN is clearly a matter of effort (time spent actually working on the problem with Claude), not complexity. Each feature in isolation is relatively easy. Getting them all done within a short time span without ruining the codebase is the hard part. And I think that’s where a lot of people get tripped up: you can do a lot, but you have to manage it tightly, or else the codebase explodes into an unreadable mess.

It’s true that if you don’t do that crucial step of “manage the results”, you’ll end up making more work for yourself in the long run, by a large factor. But it’s also true that AI sped me up so much that I was able to do in weeks what would’ve otherwise taken years (and did take dang years). I’m not claiming parity, just that I got close enough to be an interesting comparison point.

AI can clearly accelerate us. But we need to be disciplined in how we use it, just like any other new tool. That doesn’t change the fact that it does work, and I think people might be underestimating how good the results can be.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#28

I think when LLMs first came out people thought they could just say something like, "Make a Facebook clone". But now we're realizing we need to be more exact with our requirements and define things better. That has always been the bottle neck in software. When I was working we used to get requirements that literally said things like, "Get data and give it to the user". No definition of what data is, where its stored,…

> I think when LLMs first came out people thought they could just say something like, "Make a Facebook clone". But now we're realizing we need to be more exact with our requirements and define things better. That has always been the bottle neck in software.

This was substantially predicted by Fred Brooks in 1986 in the classic No Silver Bullets [1] essay under the sections "Expert Systems" and "Automatic Programming".

In it, he lays out the core features of vibe coding and exactly the experience we are having now with it: Initial success in a few carefully chosen domains and then a reasonable but not ground breaking increase in productivity as it expands outside of those domains.

[1] https://worrydream.com/refs/Brooks_1986_-_No_Silver_Bullet.p...

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#29

I think when LLMs first came out people thought they could just say something like, "Make a Facebook clone". But now we're realizing we need to be more exact with our requirements and define things better. That has always been the bottle neck in software. When I was working we used to get requirements that literally said things like, "Get data and give it to the user". No definition of what data is, where its stored,…

We now have product owners trying to farm out their work to an LLM. The process didn’t work before because the person writing the requirements either put out vague requirements or bad requirements because they didn’t understand the business intent (or were careless).

LLMs just take the same vague or poor requirements and make them look believable until you dig in to them.

Re: I don't think AI will make your processes go faster

#30

> Every software developer knows that you can’t make projects go faster just by typing faster. If that were the case we would all be taking typing lessons. So well said. AI is unveiling how the bureaucracy is the slow part.

> AI is unveiling how the bureaucracy is the slow part. Computing has been doing that for decades. If your process is fucked, computers make it fucked faster. It’s just that now, we have entire generations alive that have never seem a world without digital computers. ~LLMs~ AI is a fun new lever in some uses so clearly it is finally the hammer that will drive the screws and bolts for us, with less effort on our part!…

Bureaucracy cannot learn the problems of the past with bureaucracy because it is against their self interest.

Work in large orgs long enough and you will recognize these creatures. Ladder climbing is a skill orthogonal to adding any value to the customer/company.

Post reply on HN