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Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

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Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#21

Post by FireBeyond »

pixel_popping wrote: post #9
camkego wrote: post #8

It would be fascinating to know where the remote drivers were located that were remotely controlling these vehicles. Wasn’t there a big hubbub about using remote staff in the Philippines a while ago? This can change the reliability profile quite a bit. (Internet quality)

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

> Starlink is also available, np

I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#22

Post by FireBeyond »

jnsie wrote: post #20
AlotOfReading wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's setup are a bunch of desks with steering wheels crammed together in a normal call center [0]. Waymo doesn't do teleoperation, but other companies exist that have like Vay. Compare their setup [1]. [0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuE3ie2WcAAyeWs?format=jpg&name=... [1] https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6828f0...

I assume/hope that Tesla teleoperators are required to have drivers licenses in the states in which the cars they are operating are located?

Given that some of these teleoperators are in the Philipines, and Tesla's sterling reputation for adhering to regulation and laws, I'm going to hazard my own guess.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#23

Post by dghlsakjg »

pixel_popping wrote: post #9
camkego wrote: post #8

It would be fascinating to know where the remote drivers were located that were remotely controlling these vehicles. Wasn’t there a big hubbub about using remote staff in the Philippines a while ago? This can change the reliability profile quite a bit. (Internet quality)

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states.

My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to see if I still know the rules in the 20 years since.

I’m sure it has gotten harder in some places, but we really don’t ask for much of new drivers.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#25

Post by JumpCrisscross »

FireBeyond wrote: post #21
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

> Starlink is also available, np I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

> even as a fall back

Why this?

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#26

Post by Neywiny »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #23
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states. My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to…

Not just the test though. In some states you need approaching 100 hours of signed off driving with an experienced driver (honor system though) and a certified course

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#28

Post by somenameforme »

metalman wrote: post #10

doing the math would be a bit laborious, but does anyone happen to know the kinetic energy embodied in a tesla going the full "ludicrous" velocity?, which by all acounts, can happen very quickly in a short distance.

The article describes the incidents. Both incidents happened at < 10 mph, did not involve other vehicles, and ended up with nothing more than some scratches to the vehicle. The "crashes" from the title is yellow journalism.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#29

Post by BoorishBears »

pixel_popping wrote: post #9
camkego wrote: post #8

It would be fascinating to know where the remote drivers were located that were remotely controlling these vehicles. Wasn’t there a big hubbub about using remote staff in the Philippines a while ago? This can change the reliability profile quite a bit. (Internet quality)

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

It's not for anyone else: the non-Tesla AV companies use teleops to at most place breadcrumbs that the vehicle attempts to follow while still in full control of collision avoidance and lower level navigation.

There is never an actual remote driver turning the wheel.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#30

Post by nomel »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #7
Computer0 wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the tele operators for either this or waymo interface with the vehicle? Do they have like a sim racing sort of setup? Are they trying to do this through an xbox controller type of thing? I know the military went that route.

Tesla's setup are a bunch of desks with steering wheels crammed together in a normal call center [0]. Waymo doesn't do teleoperation, but other companies exist that have like Vay. Compare their setup [1]. [0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuE3ie2WcAAyeWs?format=jpg&name=... [1] https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6828f0...

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment.

[1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/

[2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

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