Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

refractor.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 250 posts

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#21

Post by inglor_cz »

geremiiah wrote: post #14

What's more plausible? Did they cure low functioning autism in two years? Or did they simpily miscategorize the kids and the kids grew out of their diagnosis as they matured?

If it was anything else but gut bacteria, I would be inclined to agree with you, but gut microbiota is slowly turning out to be an extremely important factor in our health and it also turns out that modern highly processed diet tends to damage it and make it less diverse. Even higher frequency of Caesarian section seems to make gut microbiota less diverse and there seem to be some diseases downstream from that.

At the same time, gut microbiota is extremely complex to study.

So, this may be a plausible result. I cannot judge the plausibilities right away in the way you suggest it.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#22

Post by roywiggins »

leikarnes wrote: post #15
geremiiah wrote: post #14

What's more plausible? Did they cure low functioning autism in two years? Or did they simpily miscategorize the kids and the kids grew out of their diagnosis as they matured?

I'm guessing that the kids now have less stomachpain, constipation, and are feeling less bloated/nauseous. Thus have less voilent reactions

Their first study allegedly resulted in "44% were below the cut-off for mild ASD"- ie, practically cured, from a diagnostic point of view.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#23

Post by geremiiah »

leikarnes wrote: post #15
geremiiah wrote: post #14

What's more plausible? Did they cure low functioning autism in two years? Or did they simpily miscategorize the kids and the kids grew out of their diagnosis as they matured?

I'm guessing that the kids now have less stomachpain, constipation, and are feeling less bloated/nauseous. Thus have less voilent reactions

That's what I'm saying. It's a misdiagnosis. Whether or not they have tantrums should not be a factor in whether or not they are high-functioning or low-functioning.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#24

Post by someguyiguess »

saalweachter wrote: post #10
quux wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't eat it, don't be silly.... you stick the poop up your butt

I believe the best procedure is actually sticking it in your nose. (They run a tube through your nose, down your throat, through the stomach to the top of the intestines, and introduce the bacterial slurry there.)

Pretty sure there’s a shorter path to the top of the intestines than through the nose but I’m no Biologist.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#25

Post by [deleted] »

LoganDark wrote: post #19
roywiggins wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that appears to be the implication of this study, which frankly seems like such a large effect that I'm pretty skeptical! I'd say "where's the control group" except the claimed effect is so large that you kind of don't need one, if it's real: > Prior to the study, 83% of participants had "severe" autism. Two years later, only 17% were rated as severe, 39% as mild or moderate, and incredibly, 44% were below the cu…

> If you are below the cutoff for mild ASD you wouldn't be diagnosed at all. That makes sense, since ASD is a disorder classification and is mainly relevant for treatment and benefits. Plenty of autistic people are not diagnosed with ASD. The article certainly could do more to differentiate between the autistic spectrum itself and the diagnosis of ASD, but as long as you know not to conflate the two, it seems perfect…

[deleted]

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#26

Post by delichon »

I got bad chronic constipation after four years as a strict carnivore. I didn't get relief just by adding back fiber, but I did by adding fermented foods like kimchi. I wonder if ferments are a more natural way than fecal transplants to repair the gut microbiome, possibly treating autism. Studies have been non conclusive, but this story makes me think it's worth pursuing.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#27

Post by tyre »

someguyiguess wrote: post #24
saalweachter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the best procedure is actually sticking it in your nose. (They run a tube through your nose, down your throat, through the stomach to the top of the intestines, and introduce the bacterial slurry there.)

Pretty sure there’s a shorter path to the top of the intestines than through the nose but I’m no Biologist.

If you’re implying it is through the rectum, you’ve definitely got some bio to brush up on. The small intestine alone is >20ft long.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#28

Post by freehorse »

geremiiah wrote: post #14

What's more plausible? Did they cure low functioning autism in two years? Or did they simpily miscategorize the kids and the kids grew out of their diagnosis as they matured?

They say that they started a phase 2 trial with placebo control in 2022 and they see better outcome than placebo

> Our phase 2 study for adults with autism found that the treatment group improved more than placebo on the primary outcome (autism symptoms) and on a secondary outcome (daily stool record),

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#30

Post by throw310822 »

saalweachter wrote: post #10
quux wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't eat it, don't be silly.... you stick the poop up your butt

I believe the best procedure is actually sticking it in your nose. (They run a tube through your nose, down your throat, through the stomach to the top of the intestines, and introduce the bacterial slurry there.)

Makes you wonder how hard would it be to just put it in a swallowable capsule that dissolves only in the upper intestine.

Also, "fecal transplant" is marketable only to weirdos. "Probiotic infusion" would work better.

For those who want to gain some artistic talent, there's this (but is expensive):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit

Post reply on HN