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Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

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Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#21

Post by kpw94 »

wombat-man wrote: post #7
Animats wrote: post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

That seems a very risky assumption for any car (self driving or human driver) during flash floods. "Turn around don't drown":

You think you know how deep it is under because you've taken that road many times before (or in your case you have historical laser measurement)

But you don't know:

- Maybe the road under fully collapsed

- Maybe the flow of water is extremely strong, so you need to accurately estimate that too.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#22

Post by drob518 »

Animats wrote: post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

It’s a particularly hard problem in Texas. We get torrential rains and the landscape is relatively flat. Couple that with shallow soil over lots of limestone and it means flooding is really common. We also have roads that have a “low water crossing,” where a road crosses a creekbed that is normally dry but which will flood. There are often water depth signs there (basically a vertical ruler with feet marks so you can see where the water is up to). We lose people to this scenario (driving into flood waters) every year. It’s particularly problematic when it’s dark and you miss a warning sign. Before you know it, you’re in deep water and the flow can sweep the whole car downstream until it gets pinned against a tree, possibly with water forcing its way into the car.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#23

Post by mortenjorck »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #11
wombat-man wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

If they have a pre-existing database of every road, sure. And if it's kept up-to-date at all times in all vehicles.

Isn’t that the Waymo data model, though? They extensively pre-drive every new market, building dense volumetric maps of the entire service area before they begin service, so they essentially do have that database of every road (that they drive on).

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#24

Post by lizardking »

xnx wrote: post #9
srameshc wrote: post #5

Does anyone with a better understanding about LIDAR vs camera approach to autonomous drivng explain how would Tesla handle such situation ?

Waymo has LIDAR and cameras, so it is better equipped for every situation.

Unless the power is out

https://abc7news.com/post/san-francisco-leaders-press-waymo-...

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#26

Post by mikem170 »

qwerpy wrote: post #14
Analemma_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this morning I was almost killed twice on my bike ride to work by two separate drivers, one of whom looked to be 80 and could barely see over the dashboard, and one who was on their phone. I didn’t even bother trying to remember the plate numbers, knowing that the odds of any kind of consequences are absolute zero. No, we can’t go back to driving our own vehicles. Waymo everywhere and human driving outlawed, ASA…

Agree. Multiple people I know have bought Teslas because they don’t trust themselves or their spouses to drive safely, and want them to use FSD. There should be incentives to get people onto self driving.

If self-driving is better, then presumably cheaper insurance costs would be an incentive.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#29

Post by dietr1ch »

tintor wrote: post #16
wombat-man wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

Such detailed database of fine grained road geometry gets stale very quickly, due to road maintenance and road construction. In US highway lanes are shifted sideways frequently.

But are they not continuously updating the road database with their fleet?

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#30

Post by mmooss »

Animats wrote: post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

> frequently

I've never made that mistake; I'm not aware of anyone I know doing it. I very rarely see it myself, except on news footage. Of course it happens some time somewhere but that says nothing about frequency.

> That's a tough problem

Not really. Don't drive where you don't know it's safe. Definitely don't drive into moving water - puddles only, and only if not too deep: I can usually figure it out based on the rest of the road - unless it's a sinkhole, the geometry is somewhat consistent - and especially by looking at objects in the water such as other cars driving through it. Sorry your friend isn't competent to figure it out.

People here are always quick to defend the autonomous cars, like a close friend. How often will we fall in love with a technology or company? It always distorts the truth.

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