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Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

phys.org

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Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#21

Why do the Swiss people continue to make timepieces in the difficult mechanical form, when making quartz movements would be easier and cheaper? Must be religious reasons. Maybe they serve a purpose in rituals by Swiss shaman. Anthropologists have no creativity.

Yeah I’d much rather have the opinion of a condescending layman on social media who’s ego was inflated by learning how to program

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#22

Why do the Swiss people continue to make timepieces in the difficult mechanical form, when making quartz movements would be easier and cheaper? Must be religious reasons. Maybe they serve a purpose in rituals by Swiss shaman. Anthropologists have no creativity.

> may have had symbolic or ritual significance. I think is a fair description of Swiss mechanical watches. They are certainly not of practical significance.

That's the point of the comment, humans do things all the time that aren't part of some larger cultural-ritual-religious aspect. We spend a lot of time and resources doing things that seem cool at the time and only seem cool to a few people.

Someone spends a few hours doing a large tag mural under a freeway and it's not a painting to honor the gods because that spot on the freeway gets sun at a certain time of day.

There's often practical reasons people do things that anthropologists can incorrectly attribute to something larger.

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#23
The original paper and referencing article are paywalled so I'm not sure if this is mentioned there, but the answer to the question "why did they use XXX for arrow points?" is surely answered by putting yourself in the position of "them" and thinking about how you'd get material for your arrows. No Amazon, no Home Depot. You'd wander around in your environment looking for suitable material. There are many places around where I live where the regular rock is soft (sandstone) but there are deposits of quartz here and there (no idea why, but there is a whole federal park devoted to the phenomenon[1]). So if you lived in such an area you'd use quartz because it's the only available usable material.

Only once long distance trade routes/gathering expeditions were a thing, people used material from further away. E.g. there are examples of obsidian from a specific location in Yellowstone being found up to a thousand miles away[2].

[1] https://www.fs.usda.gov/r01/beaverhead-deerlodge/recreation/...

[2] https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/obsidiancliff....

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> may have had symbolic or ritual significance. I think is a fair description of Swiss mechanical watches. They are certainly not of practical significance.

That's the point of the comment, humans do things all the time that aren't part of some larger cultural-ritual-religious aspect. We spend a lot of time and resources doing things that seem cool at the time and only seem cool to a few people. Someone spends a few hours doing a large tag mural under a freeway and it's not a painting to honor the gods because that spot on the freeway gets sun at a certain time of day. T…

A deep curiosity is a behavior many people have (but not all). We try all kinds of things and some of them 'catch' socially. Many bird species have behaviors like this. Birds (especially things like corvidae) will pick up a new behavior in an area, and you can track the spread of the behavior radiating outward to new areas as more members of the species pick it up from each other.

The sentence "Survival of the fittest" isn't exactly true, the more accurate description would be "Survival of the fit enough". Curiosity itself is a means to explore the problem space of reality. If you're not curious then changes in your environment may leave you unable to adapt. If you're too curious then you can end up in situations where it removes members of your species faster than they can breed. Even after the point of the individual learning something new it doesn't do much for the existing members of your species. The most optimal outcome seems like some sort of cautious mimesis transfer. In the same idea as "monkey see, monkey do", there doesn't have to be a why, other than it doesn't harm the prime directive of stay alive, get more food, breed.

That is, these quartz arrowheads are a very early version of a meme.

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#25
post #6

Because it looks cool!

Exactly. Same reason kids and people today are drawn to it and gems in general. Even today, people imbue crystals with mystical properties.

Not just people. Many bird species collect 'novel' items when making nests to attract mates. In birds we think this may be a means for a mate to measure the fitness of the male, that is they have the resources, intelligence, and ability to find these novel items, then it's likely they'll be a good father to their offspring.

It doesn't seem far fetched that this started from a similar place in humans, but has been wildly adapted in the time since as our abilities grew and the complexity of our society increased. Very hard to prove any thing like this though.

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#27
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> may have had symbolic or ritual significance. I think is a fair description of Swiss mechanical watches. They are certainly not of practical significance.

That's the point of the comment, humans do things all the time that aren't part of some larger cultural-ritual-religious aspect. We spend a lot of time and resources doing things that seem cool at the time and only seem cool to a few people. Someone spends a few hours doing a large tag mural under a freeway and it's not a painting to honor the gods because that spot on the freeway gets sun at a certain time of day. T…

It may not be a painting to honor the gods, but if you ask the artist about it, I bet you’ll find a great deal of cultural significance.

Swiss watches are absolutely steeped in cultural significance. The phrase “Swiss watch” immediately conjures a whole bunch of related meaning beyond the literal meaning of a wrist-worn timepiece made in a certain Alpine country.

If you see somebody wearing a Rolex, is your only thought “that guy likes overspending on inaccurate timepieces” or “that guy enjoys old fashioned timekeeping technology”?

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> may have had symbolic or ritual significance. I think is a fair description of Swiss mechanical watches. They are certainly not of practical significance.

That's the point of the comment, humans do things all the time that aren't part of some larger cultural-ritual-religious aspect. We spend a lot of time and resources doing things that seem cool at the time and only seem cool to a few people. Someone spends a few hours doing a large tag mural under a freeway and it's not a painting to honor the gods because that spot on the freeway gets sun at a certain time of day. T…

Your example is cultural.

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> may have had symbolic or ritual significance. I think is a fair description of Swiss mechanical watches. They are certainly not of practical significance.

That's the point of the comment, humans do things all the time that aren't part of some larger cultural-ritual-religious aspect. We spend a lot of time and resources doing things that seem cool at the time and only seem cool to a few people. Someone spends a few hours doing a large tag mural under a freeway and it's not a painting to honor the gods because that spot on the freeway gets sun at a certain time of day. T…

> it's not a painting to honor the gods

Cultural considerations aside, “ritual” also does not mean religious.

Someone pointed out that Americans ritually go to ballparks to consume hot dogs and the distinction between ritual and religion finally clicked for me.

Re: Why did Clovis toolmakers choose difficult quartz crystal?

#30
perhaps the purpose was didactic:

when a child gets interested or wants to help those tribe members making stone tools, it is not yet aware of difficulty levels of different materials.

teaching a newcomer to make a proper tool from a more annoying material, may make their skills more robust when relaxing to easier materials later on.

think of all the skills you had to learn in your own education, and how little of it you actually use today, or at least how little you think you use of it today.

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