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Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

gorillafund.org

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Re: Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

#21

Post by damnitbuilds »

gravatron wrote: post #6
SilverElfin wrote: post #4

Fascinating. How much of this is actually real and how much is people filling in a story that’s not necessarily reality but fits what we humans want to see? It feels very complex and I wonder how anyone can really know what’s happening with the social issues within these gorilla groups. Also I wonder how much of Imfura’s aggression is due to his earlier trauma. From elsewhere on the same site, written in 2022: > Imfu…

It's hard to believe any of it as the true reality after reading how much this article differed from the new Netflix documentary A Gorilla Story: Told by David Attenborough that I watched a couple of weeks ago. The story they told involving these specific gorillas was quite bit different than the one described here.

All this makes for an interesting read and viewing but I fear an awful lot of it is anthropomorphism and pseudo (social) science.

Re: Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

#23

Post by amelius »

sandworm101 wrote: post #8
arjie wrote: post #5

Huh, I went looking into this after reading this story and gorilla culture is interesting. Apparently, gorillas don't have a teaching culture (in comparison to us, I suppose) so during their long growth into adults they have to pick up a lot of cues by observation. This group, in particular, is a famous group called Pablo's group because when it was initially followed the leader was a Pablo, who was soon deposed by a…

And did they mention what happens to the 80+% of males that dont make it to silverback status? Few like to talk about the darker sides of gorilla life. As for teaching cultures, it isnt about IQ. Cats and dogs teach thier young, both wild and domesticated species.

Yes, we should highlight failures (if you can call it that) more, not just when talking about apes but with ourselves as well. Otherwise we're prone to survivorship bias.

Re: Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

#24

Post by sandworm101 »

amelius wrote: post #23
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And did they mention what happens to the 80+% of males that dont make it to silverback status? Few like to talk about the darker sides of gorilla life. As for teaching cultures, it isnt about IQ. Cats and dogs teach thier young, both wild and domesticated species.

Yes, we should highlight failures (if you can call it that) more, not just when talking about apes but with ourselves as well. Otherwise we're prone to survivorship bias.

These are not failures. Failure to reproduce does not mean they do not contribute to their society. If that were true, the male/female ratio would have evolved differently.

Re: Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

#25

Post by robot-wrangler »

arjie wrote: post #5

Huh, I went looking into this after reading this story and gorilla culture is interesting. Apparently, gorillas don't have a teaching culture (in comparison to us, I suppose) so during their long growth into adults they have to pick up a lot of cues by observation. This group, in particular, is a famous group called Pablo's group because when it was initially followed the leader was a Pablo, who was soon deposed by a…

> Pablo's group because when it was initially followed the leader was a Pablo, who was soon deposed by a chap named Cantsbee

Heh, I assumed Pablo was the scientist studying it, looks like we're in Swahili names now. That chap Cantsbee and the others all have wiki bios![0] Anyway Cantsbee does have a ridiculous and whimsical name that cannot compare to the honor and majesty of something like Ubwuzu, but he did ok for himself and his people, he really did.

> a calm but powerful leader, rarely getting into altercations or fights with other gorillas. He led with grace, strength, and serenity. Cantsbee "resolved conflicts rather than starting them, protected his family with vigilance, and rarely resorted to aggression

Remember the Cant.

[0]: https://gorillabase.fandom.com/wiki/Cantsbee

Re: Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

#26

Post by dmurray »

sandworm101 wrote: post #24
amelius wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we should highlight failures (if you can call it that) more, not just when talking about apes but with ourselves as well. Otherwise we're prone to survivorship bias.

These are not failures. Failure to reproduce does not mean they do not contribute to their society. If that were true, the male/female ratio would have evolved differently.

This doesn't follow. In animal societies where males are useless apart from their reproductive value, males are still produced at approximately 1:1. This is evolution optimizing for the reproductive success of the individual, not of the population, and is called Fisher's Principle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_principle

Re: Silverback Imfura took a chance, and ended up alone

#27

Post by Mistletoe »

gloflo wrote: post #16
Mistletoe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You did not check, you let a text generator generate plausible sounding text.

And that text generator has time and time again given me accurate enough results that I trust it like Wikipedia now. Is the answer wrong?
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