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Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

adaptivesoftware.substack.com

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Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#21

Post by slopinthebag »

Something not really discussed but almost certainly a factor in Apple's reasoning is the blowback if someone vibe codes some type of app which creates a scandal, and it's reported as if it's an app available on the App Store.

Look at the recent controversy with Grok on X as an example. Imagine BBC runs a story with the headline "iPhone App does {very_illegal_thing}", or "iPhone users can now do {extremely_morally_objectional_thing}", and then idiot governments start trying to regulate or issue fines. One reason for the rule is so their review process prevents these things from happening.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#22

Post by slopinthebag »

awwaiid wrote: post #13
wvenable wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sudden decision? This looks completely in-line with what Apple has been doing since the launch of the iPhone. I find the article most charitable to the idea that AI generated software is a different category than human generated software. It's merely a dev tool.

Not AI generated software -- DYNAMICALLY generated software, like at run time and ongoing. Even in-app directed by the user. This is not a thing that existed before, a degree of customizability well beyond letting the user pick a color scheme or from one of a few layouts or default start screens. I don't know how good of an idea it would be, product-wise, to give programming level flexibility. I am reminded of grease…

Thank god there is at least one major platform preventing applications from doing this. I get in a perfect world this would be great, but we live in a world where we use apps built by corporations which do not have the user's interests at heart and their apps that we begrudgingly use are treated as practically antagonistic.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#23

Post by [deleted] »

bandrami wrote: post #17
iristenteije wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument in the post isn't that the enforcement is unfair, more that the rule might not make sense much longer now that software can write itself. Rule was written for a world where the artifact reviewed and the artifact running were the same thing. That assumption is breaking, and not just for vibe-coding apps.

Apple doesn't want software that can write itself available on its app store. I don't want software that can write itself running on my device. So for once Apple's priorities and the consumer's align.

[deleted]

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#24

Post by wasabi991011 »

Maybe I'm just not into the iOS ecosystem enough, but I find this article really hard to take seriously.

The entire discussion is predicated on the existence of "adaptive software", not defined here and with no arguments as to why that's different than extensions or software interpreter.

The article itself seems confused. If Replit has it's created apps being displayed within its app boundaries, how is that different than an app including an interpreter? The article states "you can't version and review adaptive software" but you sure can do that with an interpreter. The fact that you can create additional software doesn't mean the software you are using to do that isn't normal software.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#25

Post by trjordan »

This is ... not new at all?

App-bundling apps existed. Apple rejected them.

Low-code apps existed. Terminals existed. Apple rejected them.

LLM apps exist. Apple allows them, because they render text, pictures, and video, but they don't run arbitrary code.

Running arbitrary code is flatly forbidden, because users can't reason about them. I see absolutely no evidence that software is moving away from versions, any more than it was when apps could first search the internet, render recommendations, or deliver messages.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#26

Post by antiframe »

petemill wrote: post #11

It's a shame we let ourselves get to this point where creativity is limited by the walled gardens we've almost fully accepted as "worth it".

The people who opt into walled gardens don't want to create, they want to consume. Those who create want unfettered access.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#27

Post by iristenteije »

wasabi991011 wrote: post #24

Maybe I'm just not into the iOS ecosystem enough, but I find this article really hard to take seriously. The entire discussion is predicated on the existence of "adaptive software", not defined here and with no arguments as to why that's different than extensions or software interpreter. The article itself seems confused. If Replit has it's created apps being displayed within its app boundaries, how is that different…

Yes, you're right that interpreters also allow users to run code. And we could argue that Apple is simply being inconsistent in how it applies its policies. I think realistically the difference is in how popular these newer vibe coding apps are, but also the fact that they have a much broader scope of what can be generated.

With Pythonista or a Lua-scripted game, the reviewer can assess what's possible: this app can do everything Python-with-this-API-surface can do, and nothing more.

With LLM-driven generation, the set of possible behaviors isn't fixed. The same Replit app can produce totally different behaviors next month than it can today, without ever being resubmitted, based on model or system prompt updates.

That's what I meant with "you can't review adaptive software".

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#28

Post by BirAdam »

antiframe wrote: post #26
petemill wrote: post #11

It's a shame we let ourselves get to this point where creativity is limited by the walled gardens we've almost fully accepted as "worth it".

The people who opt into walled gardens don't want to create, they want to consume. Those who create want unfettered access.

I like both. I keep a Linux system (or 4) around for more creative stuff, but I use a Mac as my default machine.

iPads are great for specific things, as are phones, as are laptops/desktops.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#29

Post by wvenable »

awwaiid wrote: post #13
wvenable wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sudden decision? This looks completely in-line with what Apple has been doing since the launch of the iPhone. I find the article most charitable to the idea that AI generated software is a different category than human generated software. It's merely a dev tool.

Not AI generated software -- DYNAMICALLY generated software, like at run time and ongoing. Even in-app directed by the user. This is not a thing that existed before, a degree of customizability well beyond letting the user pick a color scheme or from one of a few layouts or default start screens. I don't know how good of an idea it would be, product-wise, to give programming level flexibility. I am reminded of grease…

> Not AI generated software -- DYNAMICALLY generated software, like at run time and ongoing.

They don't allow general purpose software interpreters on their platform for the purpose of distributing apps. This is not new. AI adds nothing meaningful here.

Re: Apple is enforcing an old App Store rule against a new kind of software

#30

Post by hayleox »

This seems like perfectly correct enforcement of that rule. Yes, it's a terrible rule – it always has been. I am baffled that someone would think this is any different from how the App Store has been managed for the last 18 years. Walled gardens gonna walled garden.
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