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Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

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Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#21

Post by bryanhogan »

ninalanyon wrote: post #3

It doesn't make a convincing case to me. The differences cited seem no more, perhaps less than the differences between Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish which are, at least officially, distinct languages not dialects but are nonetheless largely mutually intelligible for many native speakers. And I'll bet that "Modern slang expressions — enthusiastically adopted by younger generations" is also difficult for elderly South…

As a Korean learner I think the article makes one believe it's the different meanings of words that cause problems, when it's more the fundamental difference in how the language is spoken in every day situations.

E.g. see the other comment by the Korean speaker here:

> Vocabulary changes depending on context, relationship, social distance, age, and whether the situation is public or private. North Korean speech is often more direct [...].

Also Korean slang changes incredibly fast.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#22

Post by password4321 »

jdw64 wrote: post #5

Reading this article, I found myself agreeing with more of it than I expected, even as a Korean-language speaker. There are words that are used differently in North Korea and South Korea, but even within South Korean Korean, the sentence endings, vocabulary, and phrasing you should use can change a lot depending on the situation. The basic structure may be similar, but small differences matter. Vocabulary changes dep…

You can prompt an LLM to sound human but apparently it takes some effort.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46393992#46396486

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#25

Post by GreenDolphinSys »

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time.

This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English loanwords there are. In addition to pure Korean words, there's a surfeit of Sino-Korean (Chinese-derived), or Hanja words. Both of these are beautiful, and then the English loanwords stick out like a sore thumb.

It's trendy to do so, but I think displacing Korean/Sino-Korean vocabulary at this pace is reckless. I think of it as 사대주의 (toadyism) to some degree as well.

---

Some years ago, I went to some cafe and ordered a coffee, like I've done thousands of times here. The employee asked me if I wanted a '디씨' (di-ssi). I had no idea what that was, so I had to ask, and lo and behold: it was shorthand for discount. Discount would be 5 syllables in Korean (디스카운트), an unbelievably long word in a language where most words are 2 syllables.

I was, and am, baffled because Korean already has a serviceable and widely used word that means discount: 할인 (hal-een), which is Sino-Korean (Hanja: 割引). I figure this is some marketing thing, but the same point applies. There are many cases where there's a perfectly capable word that, for seemingly no reason, gets switched out for an English loanword.

Maybe it's to give headaches to anyone trying to learn the language.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#26

Post by mixmastamyk »

Anon84 wrote: post #12
kibwen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, US vs. UK English has this as well, in things like "fanny", "boot", "chip", etc. But a key difference here is that NK and SK are separated by a fence, not by 2,000 miles of ocean.

British English is quickly becoming Americanized… (at least according to my results a few years back https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.00781v1 )

Most "Americanized" variations came from Britain itself, including those that come more directly from greek, or skipped French influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_s...

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#27

Post by shlewis »

GreenDolphinSys wrote: post #25

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

This is an extreme level of pedantry(forgive me), but there is a subtle difference between "DC" and "할인" (and also "세일").

"할인" refers to a wide variety of discounts: it may have a few conditions (minimum quantity, membership, etc.), be available only for a certain period of time, or be a fixed amount or percentage.

"세일" is pretty much the same, although it puts a tiny bit more focus on being a limited-time offer and being percentage-based.

"DC" almost always refers only to a simple, percentage-based discount or rounding down the price. It also sounds much more spontaneous and less formal.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#28

Post by exidy »

GreenDolphinSys wrote: post #25

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

I completely understand the sentiment you're expressing here, however if it helps the language you see as a monolithic invader underwent exactly the same process, more than once. If you could go back in time, no doubt a 12th-century Anglo-Saxon would bemoan the influx of Norman French replacing perfectly capable English (Germanic) words.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#29

Post by cenamus »

exidy wrote: post #28
GreenDolphinSys wrote: post #25

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

I completely understand the sentiment you're expressing here, however if it helps the language you see as a monolithic invader underwent exactly the same process, more than once. If you could go back in time, no doubt a 12th-century Anglo-Saxon would bemoan the influx of Norman French replacing perfectly capable English (Germanic) words.

To be pedantic, not German, rather words of Germanic origin (or just native Old English words)

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#30

Post by daemin »

GreenDolphinSys wrote: post #25

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

This is the same sort of thing as is happening in other languages such as Polish. Many English loan-words are being used when there exist equivalent Polish words, even on the news broadcast on TV.
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