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Online age verification is the hill to die on

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Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#21

Post by speak_plainly »

The argument being made seems plausible but it’s complete fear mongering. The surveillance mechanisms already exist and are in play and people can be identified in endless ways.

States have broad power to do what is being feared in the thread and haven’t already and to think that they’re waiting for this final piece of the puzzle to enact some insane regime is laughable. They could do that right now without the internet at all.

Social media is probably not healthy and kids should probably not be on social media. Age verification and age limits for social media will be a good thing for kids.

Instead of fear mongering, finding a middle ground, like governments adding some rules and protections on how this information or system is used is probably a better response.

I might be in the minority, but I think incorporating an identity layer into the internet itself should happen with the right protections for users and should have happened at the beginning of the net and is probably a result of lack of foresight by the creators of ARPANET.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#22

Post by Ifkaluva »

emptybits wrote: post #13
cvoss wrote: post #6

> If you love your family, you must stop online age verification. > If you want the best for your children, you must stop online age verification. > Your children are being targeted. The infrastructure being built under the cover of child safety is designed to enslave them for the rest of their lives. Jumped the shark on that one, and really off-color. I'm less inclined to listen to guy, not because of his actual poi…

When I read those seemingly outrageous claims, I didn't immediately dismiss the author. I allowed him to substantiate the claims and kept reading. I found myself agreeing with his argument and his train of thought of how, once digital IDs are accepted as a norm, they won't be unwound, and all online activity will likely require them and then, as he says, "Your children will never know what it was like to think freely…

The best way to not be in a digital cage is to opt out of the current digital products.

Would that be such a bad thing? Frankly I would welcome a world in which kids are not using Instagram or TikTok. They don’t have to live in a cage if we don’t let them in the cage.

Personally, my plan is that when age verification laws get passed, every service that requires ID is a service I stop using. And I expect my life to be better for it!

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#23

Post by nandomrumber »

cvoss wrote: post #6

> If you love your family, you must stop online age verification. > If you want the best for your children, you must stop online age verification. > Your children are being targeted. The infrastructure being built under the cover of child safety is designed to enslave them for the rest of their lives. Jumped the shark on that one, and really off-color. I'm less inclined to listen to guy, not because of his actual poi…

Do you actually have an argument to make?

He’s 100% correct.

For a start, child are parents responsibility, and the state should stay out of that as much as reasonably possible.

Nothing more would need to me said on the matter if that’s as far as it went, but it isn’t.

There can be no free speech if the state can imprison you for what you say, and they know everything you say.

I dropped the word ‘online’ from the above paragraph, because on is the real world. Touch grass, but there’s no way online isn’t real. Are these words not real simple because I telegraphed them to you?

That’s not a world I want to live in.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#24

Post by selectively »

speak_plainly wrote: post #21

The argument being made seems plausible but it’s complete fear mongering. The surveillance mechanisms already exist and are in play and people can be identified in endless ways. States have broad power to do what is being feared in the thread and haven’t already and to think that they’re waiting for this final piece of the puzzle to enact some insane regime is laughable. They could do that right now without the inter…

Social Media is not a thing at all. Social media is a website. Websites are not health or unhealthy. Food is healthy or unhealthy. Websites are light and potentially sound, not something with health effects.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#25

Post by babypuncher »

cvoss wrote: post #6

> If you love your family, you must stop online age verification. > If you want the best for your children, you must stop online age verification. > Your children are being targeted. The infrastructure being built under the cover of child safety is designed to enslave them for the rest of their lives. Jumped the shark on that one, and really off-color. I'm less inclined to listen to guy, not because of his actual poi…

5 years ago I would have agreed, but seeing how the GOP has been fighting tooth and nail to protect actual child sex traffickers, I don't think so anymore. There's just no possible way that the safety of children is an actual concern to any of them. To these people, kids are little more than sex toys for billionaires.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#26

Post by rationalist »

speak_plainly wrote: post #21

The argument being made seems plausible but it’s complete fear mongering. The surveillance mechanisms already exist and are in play and people can be identified in endless ways. States have broad power to do what is being feared in the thread and haven’t already and to think that they’re waiting for this final piece of the puzzle to enact some insane regime is laughable. They could do that right now without the inter…

What I'm hearing you say:

> Our freedom is already being eroded, saying that it is being eroded more is just fear mongering.

> They want to hurt you, instead of fear mongering, find a middle ground where they're hurting you differently.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#28

Post by bit-anarchist »

Larrikin wrote: post #4
eykanal wrote: post #2

Alternative take: The fact that twitter / facebook / whatever allow arbitrary, unverified posting enables large-scale misinformation that led to, among other things, Russia's manipulation the US electorate and ultimate impacting the presidential election. This one-sided view has some good points, but for goodness sake, don't pretend that the alternative has no downsides.

Playing devil's advocate outside of debate club only serves to promote the devil's point of view. State your well reasoned opinion where you have considered the facts. Or just say you are in support of this openly.

Disagreed. I'm against invasive age verification methods, but to allow innacurate expectations to proliferate often becomes a bubble that pops, causing many to rebound to the other side, even if it's objectively worse. I much prefer to keep the tradeoffs clear, as it prevent betrayed expectations while still showcasing the unnacceptible downsides.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#29

Post by goda90 »

selectively wrote: post #15

An attestation-like system to detect humanity at time of post is absolutely for useful online spaces in the era of AI slop. The writing style of the author is very annoying.

It could be done with anonymous credentials though. No tracing to who the human is.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#30

Post by peyton »

cvoss wrote: post #6

> If you love your family, you must stop online age verification. > If you want the best for your children, you must stop online age verification. > Your children are being targeted. The infrastructure being built under the cover of child safety is designed to enslave them for the rest of their lives. Jumped the shark on that one, and really off-color. I'm less inclined to listen to guy, not because of his actual poi…

The kids are our future adults. It should be pretty obvious that getting them used to the state yanking access is a future problem. I don’t see anything off-color or unreasonable.
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