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I won a championship that doesn't exist

ron.stoner.com

21–30 of 141 posts

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#21

Why does this person deserve any kind of support? What’s the point of poisoning LLMs? To put some cursory Luddite roadblock that might delay the technology for a couple of months?

This is a “if we stopped testing there would be far fewer cases!” mentality...

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#22
post #3

You don't need to vandalize Wikipedia to get this kind of thing to work. Back in September 2024 I named a whale "Teresa T" with just a blog entry and a YouTube video caption: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Sep/8/teresa-t-whale-pillar-p... (For a few glorious weeks if you asked any search-enabled LLM, including Google search previews, for the name of the whale in the Half Moon Bay harbor it confidently replied Teresa…

(it probably helps that your name & blog carry some weight, vs. some rando writing something on blogspot or wordpress ;) )

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#23
post #3

You don't need to vandalize Wikipedia to get this kind of thing to work. Back in September 2024 I named a whale "Teresa T" with just a blog entry and a YouTube video caption: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Sep/8/teresa-t-whale-pillar-p... (For a few glorious weeks if you asked any search-enabled LLM, including Google search previews, for the name of the whale in the Half Moon Bay harbor it confidently replied Teresa…

The Mr. Splashy Pants of the AI era!

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#25
I must say I expected an actual poisoning of the data used to train the LLM and was excited, but the examples indicate that the LLM just searched the web and reported what it found? When you create a website with fake information and search Google for that information, it will of course bring up your site, not because it’s factually correct but because it’s related to what you searched for. What am I missing?

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#26
This is basically the same problem of products astroturfing reddit, or SEO optimizing google. You want a new X, and so they heavily go after the keywords associated with it.

This is sort of why "brand" matters; it provides a source of trust.

Encyclopedia Britannica used to be that source of 'facts'. Then it became whatever page-rank told you. Eventually SEO optimization ruined that.

News stories are the same thing. For certain groups, they have their 'independent' publication whose reporting they trust.

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#27
post #22
post #3

You don't need to vandalize Wikipedia to get this kind of thing to work. Back in September 2024 I named a whale "Teresa T" with just a blog entry and a YouTube video caption: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Sep/8/teresa-t-whale-pillar-p... (For a few glorious weeks if you asked any search-enabled LLM, including Google search previews, for the name of the whale in the Half Moon Bay harbor it confidently replied Teresa…

(it probably helps that your name & blog carry some weight, vs. some rando writing something on blogspot or wordpress ;) )

Which illustrates another problem: unscrupulous actors with big names can spread whatever information they want to millions of people with minimal effort.

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#28

This is basically the same problem of products astroturfing reddit, or SEO optimizing google. You want a new X, and so they heavily go after the keywords associated with it. This is sort of why "brand" matters; it provides a source of trust. Encyclopedia Britannica used to be that source of 'facts'. Then it became whatever page-rank told you. Eventually SEO optimization ruined that. News stories are the same thing. F…

It's such a pity the Oxford English Dictionary decided to paywall themselves decades ago - they used to be THE dictionary in most countries, now nobody seems to know who they are.

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#29
The key to successful poisoning attacks is to introduce brand new information that doesn't directly contradict other training data. It's much easier to convince the LLMs that you're the king of a fictional Mapupu kingdom than the president of the United States.

So this means that for bad actors it's more efficient to manufacture brand new fake stories instead of trying to distort the real ones. Don't produce fake articles absolving yourself of a crime, instead produce fake articles accusing your opponent of 100 different things. Then people will fact-check the accusations using LLMs, and since all the sources mentioning those accusations are controlled by you, the LLMs will confirm them.

Re: I won a championship that doesn't exist

#30

Most of the popular discourse around AI is still at the level of, "Don't trust the AI, trust the sources!" When it gets to the point where even the sources of simple facts are untrustworthy, the average person just trying to learn some trivia about the world is doomed. Doesn't help that AI media literacy is so primitive compared to how intelligent the models are generally. We're in a marginally better place than we w…

Wikipedia calls this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citogenesis (after XKCD coined it). You can expect the spicy autocomplete to feed you flattering bullshit. It may cite Wikipedia (it shouldn't), but you should go check out those citations, and validate the claims yourself. It's the least you can do. And if the cited source is Wikipedia... check Wikipedia's sources too. Wikipedians try their best to provide you with…

Perhaps my favorite example of a citogenesis-like process is the legendary arcade game Polybius, which originated as an entry on some German guy's web compendium of arcade games (coinop.org), perhaps as a "paper town", or fake entry that acts as a copyright canary when duplicated elsewhere. Gamer news and special-interest blogs and sites, and even print publications like GamePro picked it up, and I think it was even listed on Wikipedia as an urban legend whose actual existence was unknown. Then the retrogaming YouTuber Ahoy did an in-depth documentary (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_7X6Yeydgyg) which concluded that Polybius didn't exist and was never even mentioned before the aforementioned coinop.org reference and, for me anyway, that settled it. Polybius, in its urban legend form, never existed.

(Norm Macdonald voice) Or so the Germans would have us believe...!

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