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MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

blog.meshcore.io

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Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#21

Post by RankingMember »

brk wrote: post #14

I've played with MeshCore and Meshtastic a bit, and while they are fun, the general hype seems overblown. The "SHTF" types that get involved with this tend to just taint the whole concept for me. I was/am interested in the use cases for building sensor networks, but most of the chatter seems to be around people who just want to send Hello World type texts back and forth, without realizing how poorly a network like th…

I feel the same way, and both mobile apps are pretty janky, with Meshtastic being extra obnoxious because the UI teams between Android and Apple apparently don't talk to each other- very hard to onboard/answer questions from someone new if you're on a different platform than them.

It was fun and cheap to set up, but I look forward to something with better messaging persistence so you can at least reliably not miss stuff.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#22

Post by mtlynch »

>Would you trust AI generated mesh firmware?

It's ridiculous to me that they're concerned about the trustworthiness of AI-generated code when their code quality is so low. They don't even have automated tests and ignore attempts to add them.[0, 1, 2, 3]

Last I checked, there's little validity checking in the code, so it's possible to broadcast nonsense values (like GPS coordinates outside of Earth's bounds) and the code happily accepts it.

And that's fine if they're just like a scrappy upstart doing their best, but it annoys me to be so high and mighty about their code quality when they don't invest in it.

I really want to like MeshCore but I feel like its stewardship makes it hard. The main two people I know running it are Scott Powell and Liam Cottle, both of whom are trying to build businesses on closed-source layers on top of the firmware. I don't think there's anything wrong with an open-core business model (I ran such a business myself), but it creates perverse incentives where the core maintainers try to suppress information about the open-source alternatives and push their own closed-source paid products.

Also, MeshCore's recommended broadcast settings for the US are illegal.[4] I emailed the Liam and Scott about this months ago, and they ignored me.

[0] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/pull/925

[1] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/issues/1059

[2] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/pull/1065

[3] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/meshcore.js/pull/11

[4] https://github.com/meshcore-dev/MeshCore/issues/945

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#23

Post by mtlynch »

marssaxman wrote: post #19
queenkjuul wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, very surprised to learn that it is closed source, and that's probably not changing. My local mesh was testing out meshcore last week, this definitely kills my interest too

Shame to hear that: the protocol works well, scaling up to thousands of nodes across hundreds of miles. This is the local mesh where I live: https://cascadiamesh.org/map/ You don't have to use the closed source app; there's an open-source client too, there are Blackberry-style client devices which don't require an app at all, and all the actual firmware is open source (MIT).

>there are Blackberry-style client devices which don't require an app at all, and all the actual firmware is open source (MIT).

Worth noting that the Blackberry-style devices are also closed source and the hardware and software is way worse than Blackberry was 22 years ago.[0]

[0] https://mtlynch.io/first-impressions-of-meshcore/#this-is-no...

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#25

Post by jstanley »

mtlynch wrote: post #22

> Would you trust AI generated mesh firmware ? It's ridiculous to me that they're concerned about the trustworthiness of AI-generated code when their code quality is so low. They don't even have automated tests and ignore attempts to add them.[0, 1, 2, 3] Last I checked, there's little validity checking in the code, so it's possible to broadcast nonsense values (like GPS coordinates outside of Earth's bounds) and the…

What's an example of a GPS coordinate "outside earth's bounds"?

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#26

Post by marssaxman »

mtlynch wrote: post #23
marssaxman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shame to hear that: the protocol works well, scaling up to thousands of nodes across hundreds of miles. This is the local mesh where I live: https://cascadiamesh.org/map/ You don't have to use the closed source app; there's an open-source client too, there are Blackberry-style client devices which don't require an app at all, and all the actual firmware is open source (MIT).

> there are Blackberry-style client devices which don't require an app at all, and all the actual firmware is open source (MIT). Worth noting that the Blackberry-style devices are also closed source and the hardware and software is way worse than Blackberry was 22 years ago.[0] [0] https://mtlynch.io/first-impressions-of-meshcore/#this-is-no...

Good to know - I've only used the companion radios. That firmware and the repeater firmware is open, which is what seems important to me.

I wasn't expecting the T-Deck to be anything more sophisticated than a walkie-talkie for SMS, but it's a bummer than the UI code isn't open.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#27

Post by mtlynch »

jstanley wrote: post #25
mtlynch wrote: post #22

> Would you trust AI generated mesh firmware ? It's ridiculous to me that they're concerned about the trustworthiness of AI-generated code when their code quality is so low. They don't even have automated tests and ignore attempts to add them.[0, 1, 2, 3] Last I checked, there's little validity checking in the code, so it's possible to broadcast nonsense values (like GPS coordinates outside of Earth's bounds) and the…

What's an example of a GPS coordinate "outside earth's bounds"?

A longitude that's outside the range of [-180, +180] or a latitude that's outside the range of [-90, +90].

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#28

Post by LaserBeam1000 »

lukeasch21 wrote: post #15

I would absolutely encourage everyone reading this to check out Reticulum [1] if you haven't already. I believe the base project might be in need of new maintainers(?) at the moment and the main dev has some very strong takes, but it is a very well-thought out approach to distributed networking at the protocol layer. The existing implementations out there include a desktop app which can function over the internet (IP…

I've never seen a working Reticulum network in the wild.

Only very very small testbeds.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#29

Post by LaserBeam1000 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #3

Is this client app still closed source? Non-starter for me, also a strong indicator that anything like this was bound to happen, and this will not be the end of it.

https://github.com/zjs81/meshcore-open

The closed client isn't needed anymore.

Re: MeshCore development team splits over trademark dispute and AI-generated code

#30

Post by jimnotgym »

busterarm wrote: post #8
fooqux wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So?

IYKYK. Hams are known for a distinctive personality type that can be at strong odds from other tech people and other comms people. Usually in ways that clash with consequences. I know a few hams that are chill and they are precious doves. I know quite a few more who I won't even engage with for fear of crossing them and them dedicating their lives to making mine hell. Because I've seen them do it to others. That's no…

I have an amateur radio licence and I agree. One reason I rarely operate...

I always found it interesting how many useful little apps hams write, keep them closed source and then...die.

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