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Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

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Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#21

Post by Refreeze5224 »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #19

The solution to such information asymmetry is to mandate disclosure of all algorithms and data used in setting the price.

That won't work. The issue is a fundamental power imbalance being exploited by the seller. An individual will never have the time, money, or energy to be on an equal footing with companies that do this. So giving people a bunch of algorithms and data does nothing. It's just like giving people EULAs and pretending that because they have the stated terms, it somehow makes them an equal party. The solution is to ban situations where these power imbalances exist. Too bad capitalism is inherently based on them....

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#23

Post by NDlurker »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #7
NDlurker wrote: post #2

This is really making me consider going back to all cash and local purchases. Maybe prepaid debit cards and a PO box for when I need to order something online.

It's more important now than ever to spend an extra 2 dollars shopping locally. Your neighbors will appreciate it. Bezos will build another rocket and cut more jobs.

Agreed. I shop locally when I can. It's frustrating though that some of that stuff can't be found locally anymore. I went to 3 businesses today looking for a couple cheap car parts. Couldn't find them so ended up getting one part off eBay and then having my friend order the other with his Amazon Prime account.

But yeah, I do spend as much money at local/regional businesses as I can. And I've started donating to local charities to help my neighbors.

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#24

Post by nemomarx »

bit1993 wrote: post #22

I don't buy this. Doesn't supply and demand fix this unless of course you are dealing with a monopoly and have no choice. Don't customers find the most affordable goods in the market place and aren't goods priced competitively? What am I missing?

If all the airlines (or whatever business) are doing something like this, how would you know what the prices are and what the alternatives are? Custom prices per user based on willingness to pay shifts market value around a lot.

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#25

Post by bit1993 »

nemomarx wrote: post #24
bit1993 wrote: post #22

I don't buy this. Doesn't supply and demand fix this unless of course you are dealing with a monopoly and have no choice. Don't customers find the most affordable goods in the market place and aren't goods priced competitively? What am I missing?

If all the airlines (or whatever business) are doing something like this, how would you know what the prices are and what the alternatives are? Custom prices per user based on willingness to pay shifts market value around a lot.

> If all the airlines (or whatever business) are doing something like this

Then that would be the main issue and far worse then the algorithms, that's a monopoly or cartel and not a free market. Because in a competitive market prices will be competitive with very little arbitrage.

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#26

Post by pizzly »

NDlurker wrote: post #2

This is really making me consider going back to all cash and local purchases. Maybe prepaid debit cards and a PO box for when I need to order something online.

You will find many companies don't allow prepaid debit cards. OpenAI months ago refused to accept prepaid debit card but allowed personal debit card. Not sure how they know its a prepaid card though (Visa prepaid). I think many companies are using credit cards as a form of ID.

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#27

Post by pizzly »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #7
NDlurker wrote: post #2

This is really making me consider going back to all cash and local purchases. Maybe prepaid debit cards and a PO box for when I need to order something online.

It's more important now than ever to spend an extra 2 dollars shopping locally. Your neighbors will appreciate it. Bezos will build another rocket and cut more jobs.

Perhaps in some places but if you live in a country without much competition and very high cost of living its much more than an extra 2 dollars to shop locally. Prices are routinely 1.5 - 2x more if you buy locally than online here. Also if money is tight then even if its just an extra 2 dollars then you should make the purchasing decision that benefits you. That extra money is health (both physical and mental (R&R))

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#28

Post by greenmilk »

bit1993 wrote: post #25
nemomarx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all the airlines (or whatever business) are doing something like this, how would you know what the prices are and what the alternatives are? Custom prices per user based on willingness to pay shifts market value around a lot.

> If all the airlines (or whatever business) are doing something like this Then that would be the main issue and far worse then the algorithms, that's a monopoly or cartel and not a free market. Because in a competitive market prices will be competitive with very little arbitrage.

I've got news for you there. The Biden administration tried to take the first real antitrust action in decades and then suddenly a bunch of tech oligarchs switched from supporting Democrats to supporting a convicted felon

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#29

Post by cuttothechase »

2009mobile wrote: post #6

The article describes Uber's surge pricing as a form of surveillance pricing, but this is misleading. The primary purpose of surge pricing isn't to maximize profit, it's to increase supply. Dynamic pricing in a 2-sided network is different than in retailing.

Well the same logic can be used to justify bias too. I am surge pricing a person of religion X or race Y because I am increasing the supply for All races / religion in a equitable way!

Re: Surveillance Pricing: Exploiting Information Asymmetries

#30

Post by victorbjorklund »

nh23423fefe wrote: post #15
esseph wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The primary purpose of surge pricing isn't to maximize profit, it's to increase supply. Hm. This doesn't pass the sniff test for me. If say 500 people take an Uber to a venue or need an Uber from the airport, increasing the price more often than not is just going to increase revenue. The price increase doesn't force you into an alternative choice if there are no alternatives. Many places don't have substantial taxi…

the price increase can incentivize more drivers thus increasing supply. conversely driving the price to zero would certain increase demand and eliminate supply. i mean, if you posit inelastic demand, you dont get you pretend you derived it as a conclusion right?

Also it decrease demand. Someone who is feeling ”eh maybe I’ll take an uber or the train” will be more likely to take the train.
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